In this episode of the Art & Self Podcast, I welcome Annette Stahl—an entrepreneur, coach, and designer. We spoke about life transitions, how our homes reflect and influence our lives, safety, energy, and how inner and outer spaces can align.
The artwork discussed on this episode is The Mysterious Garden by Margaret Macdonald Mackintosh.
Note: Domestic violence is briefly mentioned in this episode in the 34th minute.
6:05 – What do you think these faces mean?
11:46 – What does it mean to be a bubble? How does it work?
16:07 – The face that looks like it’s looking out at me.
21:51 – How has doing this work of breath and flow impacted your life?
28:15 – Mirror story
38:10 – Childhoods
45:34 – You have to give yourself permission to go through.
This transcript was auto-generated, so please excuse any typos or misspellings.
Cindy Ingram 0:02
Hello, and welcome to art and self. I’m Cindy Ingram, your host and the founder of art class curator, the curated connections library and the art and self connection circle. This is a podcast where we experience the range and depth of what it means to be human seen through our connections and conversations about work smart. These aren’t conversations are here to show you that art is here for you as a catalyst, Challenger, coach, and a comfort. Before we get started, take a moment to fill up your lungs with a deep breath, connect with your body and your mind and your spirit and get ready to discover what art has to show you.
I am so excited to welcome Annette Stahl to the podcast. Welcome Annette.
Annette Stahl 0:49
Hello, thank you.
Cindy Ingram 0:51
All right. So Annette, why don’t you introduce yourself to our listeners.
Annette Stahl 0:56
I am Annette Stahl. And I have a company called A Design Discovery. I have designed and drafted over 400 homes. I do consulting, and coaching and design and real estate. And what I have learned over the last decade and a half is that our space supports how we love. And when we align it, everything flows. And when we get out of alignment. It’s very chaotic and overwhelming. So I’m excited to be here because I love art. And I really promote local artists and making sure that we don’t use the masses, the energy we bring in the home is the energy it will have. And so I am super excited to be here.
Cindy Ingram 1:39
Awesome. So at the end, I’ll ask you a little bit more about your the services you provide in case anybody is just really intrigued by your discussion. We’ll talk about that and how to reach you at the end, and we’ll also put any links we mentioned in the show notes. But for us to get started, I picked actually I have five works of art for you to look at I had four, but like five minutes before we started talking, I was going to try to find a title for one of them. I failed. But I found another one by the same artist and I was just kind of my curiosity was piqued. So I’m going to show you these artworks on the screen. And then I would like you to choose one that really captivates you choose one that like speaks to your heart not like intellectually thinking, Oh, I think there’s some things I could say about this. But like what it like, which one gives you that sort of visceral reaction of ooh, I want to I want to look at that a little bit more.
Annette Stahl 2:31
So we’re going for feel which one feels?
Cindy Ingram 2:35
Yeah, yeah, that’s what we’re going for. Okay, so let me share my screen. We were just talking before we started, both of us have dogs that are being extra noisy today. So you might hear dogs in the background. And we’re just gonna go with it, because that’s really I did take my dog out because he was snoring really loud. But all right, so here’s our first one. This one is called comfort zone by now of course I don’t have the titles on the screen. Erik Johansson, I believe actually, I’m going to take this off so that I can actually look at the titles. Oh, I was right. I was all of a sudden thought that Eric was wrong. Okay, comfort zone by Erik Johansson. And then I don’t have a title for this one. But the artist is named swoon. She is a street artist. And then another one by the artist swoon. And then we have the opening by Ilya Chapman. And I might be saying her last name wrong. And then our last one is the mysterious garden by Margaret MacDonald McIntosh.
Annette Stahl 3:43
So I’m called to Margaret Macintoshes. The mysterious garden.
Cindy Ingram 3:48
Awesome. Last one. Okay. This one I just added in the last hour as well. I had four different ones that I was changing my mind. Cool. All right. So before we get started talking about it, tell us what what drew you into it what made you want to look at this one more.
Annette Stahl 4:04
It was the feel so it’s like this flow and then it would honestly I didn’t look too close at any of them. I just went with what felt called to so my intuition just was really curious and it has so much open space and yet so much going on at the same time. That the both and was intriguing to me. The color was also amazing. So that color definitely resonated with me, the blues and the purples and the pinks.
Cindy Ingram 4:36
Excellent. Do want to start at the description for our listeners and listeners. You can find this artwork in the show notes. But please do not pull it up while you’re driving.
Annette Stahl 4:50
The first thing to notice about this is it’s almost like a bubble. So it’s like this soft, flowing woman and you don’t know if it’s like her Hair are available, but it’s like she’s in this bubble. And then when you look behind her, it’s like is that stained glass, but there’s faces all along the top. And at first, they’re evenly spaced, and then all of a sudden, they get super close. And then they go back to evenly spaced. And it’s almost as if they have wings under them. Hmm.
Cindy Ingram 5:22
Yeah, so the color palette is mostly like a purpley blue like a cool blue. And it’s very, it’s not very saturated, it’s really sort of kind of washed out with some grays and white. And then little touches of pink and little touches of a more warm purple.
Annette Stahl 5:43
In the bottom is really grounded on the ground. Like it looks almost like concrete, because it’s kind of that color. That’s what it’s giving it it’s a luminous and kind of puffiness. And her face looks completely like almost like that sleep serene face, you know, like that, like who like that?
Cindy Ingram 6:04
Excellent. All right. So I think that’s a pretty good description in between each of the faces in the background. And they’re all pretty similar. There are some differences, which we can talk about too. But there is the spaces between the faces. To me, I’m always viewing them as columns. But there’s sort of this vertical lines interspersed in between the faces,
Annette Stahl 6:30
almost like columns, it’s almost as if she’s in like a church or synagogue or some kind of old type of structure where everything had the columns and the piers.
Cindy Ingram 6:42
Yeah. And it does feel like a very sacred space.
Annette Stahl 6:45
Cindy Ingram 6:48
All right. So what is calling you to discuss first?
Annette Stahl 6:53
I’m curious about the faces. So I don’t know if it’s calling me but I am curious, because there’s one face that’s in between two columns. There’s a blue bubble on her and her eyes are different. It’s like all the rest of them have closed eyes and her eyes are open.
Cindy Ingram 7:06
Yeah, and she almost has like, really dramatic eyelashes or our eye makeup.
Annette Stahl 7:14
Yeah, I couldn’t tell it was yeah, I couldn’t tell
Cindy Ingram 7:17
zoom in on that. I wonder if I can. Okay, so I’ve zoomed in the image and what are you noticing about that one space.
Annette Stahl 7:26
So it’s interesting because most of the eyes are like I called them hooded eyelids or just this you might be able to see through just barely, but you’re really in that relaxed state. And then the one that has the pink on it and is in between two faces is like awake. Yeah. Even look at the smiles. They’re almost all the same. Except kind of go away on the one beside her and I can’t tell if those are wings below them or fish.
Cindy Ingram 7:56
To me, they look like ties, and oh collared shirts.
Annette Stahl 8:03
Oh, like feathers. Maybe even
Cindy Ingram 8:05
Yeah, but now I’m seeing that. Now that you’ve mentioned it. If you look at the you look at one of them. The wings overlap her bubble. And so that makes me think that it is wings, too. Yeah, so that were birds. Look at the one on the right. Oh, yeah, maybe it is. There’s beaks and eyes. Yeah, I
Annette Stahl 8:29
see. That’s why I thought they were fish because I was like, it’s like they are alive. But your birds.
Cindy Ingram 8:36
Interesting. Okay, so what do you think these faces are? What do you think they mean? What do you think they’re they’re
Annette Stahl 8:43
well and then there’s flowers below the lips. Do you see that? So right there’s flowers and but I don’t understand the pink. So it’s like coming out of her crown chakra or the back and it’s on the one face that has the awakening.
Cindy Ingram 9:02
Annette Stahl 9:03
So in the title of the piece is mysterious garden which would make sense that there’s flowers and would make sense there are birds even so look even at her dress, like right below her collar there. Looks like there’s a bird coming out of it. Like go down. Oh, left, see that? i Yeah, like right here. Go Yep, and then go down below the blue one. And so I’m finding that really interesting. As far as is it when we slow down and we connect with nature. And we garden that we become awake because you know it’s like asleep and it’s all regimen of the kind of machine of building a column building a building, and then they get close together. her and it’s like her movement went in and her eyes open? Or is that is that she is asleep and then she’s awake and her dream her mysterious garden dream? I don’t know. Ah,
Cindy Ingram 10:13
okay, so a couple theories that there is a that she is asleep and this is her dream, or that she is is it? Is it a real? Not rebellion as the wrong word, but so it’s something contrasting against like the industrialized cookie cutter type of world?
Annette Stahl 10:44
Well, that’s my question is that masculine feminine is systems versus gardening like machine versus gardener. Because the, it’s there in columns as if a building was built, right. And a building has to have structure and straight, you wouldn’t necessarily want a wall that was bowing out or it right. And so it has this like structure. And then inside this structure is these birds that are coming up into this face. And then then it’s blossom in the middle that’s right below the lips. So that’s, it’s interesting to me. And the eyes are changing depending on like, where the blossoms are. So and the reason I was thinking I think I was drawn to it is because it has all the geometric shapes and structure behind her. And yet she is this fluid bubble of lightness. Against the contrast of the structure. Yeah. Oh,
Cindy Ingram 11:46
I’m gonna unzoom just hacking, we can see the full scope of it.
So what do you mean works? And how to say that one more time?
Annette Stahl 12:00
She looks like a bubble, like so? flowy?
Cindy Ingram 12:06
Yeah, it’s like, I want to be her. I know. Like, can I please just feel that sort of like comfort and lightness and
Annette Stahl 12:17
in a womb? Yeah. Like, you know, it’s like that circular womb, like she’s just flowing. And, you know, like, when you think of a baby and a woman there and all that water, and it’s just, there’s obviously structure all around them.
Cindy Ingram 12:33
Yeah, and we don’t see her, we don’t really see her physical body, we kind of see her shoulders and her chest. But then it sort of flows out to the left. And we can kind of see maybe, like two lines that kind of represent the side of her dress or something. But it really is not a very, like, natural way someone would stand so she is not doesn’t appear to be really standing on the ground. She’s more floating. Yeah. And that whole bubble is on the ground and is grounded. Yeah.
Annette Stahl 13:06
I mean, literally, there’s brown in the bottom. Yeah.
Cindy Ingram 13:11
So I feel like there’s some sort of message here for me, in my life. How to find peace, or exist within myself, peacefully despite the structures around me. Or
Annette Stahl 13:34
maybe those structures, they create the safety for us to flow and be in ourselves. You know, if you think of a home, it allows us to control doesn’t matter what the weather is doing. It gives us that safe place to sit and paint and create and be ourselves. Right. Yeah.
Cindy Ingram 13:55
But at the same time, so I see that in here, and I see the sacred space at all. Yeah, has that like stained glass type of look? Yeah. And to me, a safe space is not one where I’m being watched. And so all of these phases, and maybe it’s causing a little bit of uneasiness, for me thinking like if I’m imagining myself being her she looks so peaceful and she looks lost in it. She doesn’t necessarily look aware of all those faces, but to me, I’m like, oh, there’s something uncomfortable about having all of those people
Annette Stahl 14:33
well, so all of those spaces seem to be her paces. Assume they were her faces. They’re all parts of her. Oh, so there are parts of her just looking and knowing of her soul. Like it’s like we see you Yeah, I love or maybe her. We see your soulful, amazing connected. We see you.
Cindy Ingram 14:56
Yes. And they’re like, or they’re even like her her spirit. right to her guides are
Annette Stahl 15:02
like to me they feel like they’re, they’re not they don’t look judging they look noticing. True. That’s true. Like I’m just present with you, I see you, you know, you’re seeing even as a form that’s not solid a form that isn’t necessarily make sense.
Cindy Ingram 15:23
I love that. So what what do you make of the face that is different? If those are all parts of her?
Annette Stahl 15:30
Crazy because it’s pink in it and her eyes are weak. What is that says that? I don’t understand. So is that like you wake up once you start to blue like well, because it’s totally mysterious garden. Yeah. So I that’s what’s making me a little muddy because we don’t see the birds in that one because she’s covering it. It’s really close. So like, Are there awake versions available between each face and that’s the only one we came up. There’s 1234567 faces that are asleep one that’s awake. Yeah, I don’t know.
Cindy Ingram 16:10
And the more I look at that face to the more it looks like it’s looking out at me. Right? The left well, it’s the face is right eye but it’s our left. Especially you can kind of see the iris and you can see more of the eye though. The right one I don’t see as clearly but I look I feel like she’s looking at me and I feel like the expression on her mouth is a little more like it has a little more emotion to it.
Annette Stahl 16:43
Yeah, the although restless tranquil and you can see like the first face hardly has a flower. The second phase hardly as a flower then you see the flower and the third phase. The fourth phase the eyes are so look at the eyes like the eyes are a little open to the first one pretty closed in the second. That one you can see the flower but not as well as the one before. And then it almost looks like the next one. You only see the stem. And then you see her waking up. Yeah.
Cindy Ingram 17:18
And even the the features are drawn more. There’s more shading. There’s more like three dimensionality to that face to like if you look at the nose, now, it looks more realistic than all the other like the one right immediately to the right of almost. Yeah, you can barely even tell and they fade out even
Annette Stahl 17:39
more than more than you go right because the next one more faded out. Oh
Cindy Ingram 17:50
and she almost looks like she’s the face that we’re talking about the one that we’re the sort of awake face in the background. It looks to me like it’s not as if maybe like a smirk.
Annette Stahl 18:05
Yeah, I would agree. It just seems interesting because she’s connected to that face versus the other faces. She’s really not touching.
Cindy Ingram 18:16
Yeah, someone close to her.
Annette Stahl 18:19
She is touching that one and that one appears seemingly not in order because that should be a blank space if you are going in the pattern that had been created before.
Cindy Ingram 18:33
So still kind of a mystery.
Annette Stahl 18:37
And here’s my question about the flowers. It looks like birds are bringing the flowers because if you look over whether you can see the firewall looks like this, like the stem is in their feet. Yeah. And they’re in that one the feathers are in front of her so the birds are in front of her and she’s behind it.
Cindy Ingram 19:04
Yeah, that part is confusing to me because it totally like messes up with my perception of space. I mean it is overall flat artwork but it in my head she’s in front and they’re behind.
Annette Stahl 19:16
But her dress is flowing behind those burdens.
Cindy Ingram 19:19
Annette Stahl 19:20
that’s infused maybe that’s the trance personal like maybe she’s more spirit or ghost than she is. Concrete.
Cindy Ingram 19:29
Annette Stahl 19:42
I feel of the tranquility and the flow like it makes me want to flow. Yeah, you want to kind of close my eyes and feel the softness. It’s really the softness. It’s feeling I mean even the feathers I’m French Just the softness versus the rigidity of the stone or what would it be the structure behind it?
Cindy Ingram 20:08
Yeah, cuz it seemingly hard, but that that, you know, what could be columns, they’re either stained glass, they’re like marble columns, the ground is very much like, looks like cement.
Annette Stahl 20:19
Or everything was hard except for her in the birds. Yeah. And so it’s just like, even in the hardest of the worlds, you can be soft and you can write.
Cindy Ingram 20:32
Yeah. And that really connects me to a lot of when I’ve talked with you about your work and about your sort of your focus on breath and meditation and different things like that, can you? Can you talk about how this painting? Well, is this a painting? Actually not 100? Sure, this is technically called a painting. I’ll find that out before I post this. And I will let you know, I think it’s, I think it might be a print. But anyway, that’s neither here nor there. Tell us how this connects to the work that you do.
Annette Stahl 21:09
So we as a world are very much in our heads a lot, which was probably why I picked so many heads. Hmm. So one of the ways that we can come down into our body is by feeling and breathing. So really, that deep belly breath, like you’re filling a vase in that full exhale to let it all out, and let everything out and become present with right where we are. Whatever that is. So I love the faces, they just are noticing without judgment, just noticing. And I love that feel. So I always talk to people, like if they were choosing art for a space, how does this make you feel? Every space you create, you want to think about? How do you want it to feel? How do you want it to flow? How do you want it to function. And so for me, this has a lot of flow and a lot of feel for you know the flow of this of it. So
Cindy Ingram 22:16
how has really doing this work of, of breath, and flow impacted you in your life.
Annette Stahl 22:35
It’s shifted to in to follow my heart instead of do what people want. So I am a chronic people pleaser. I notice their expressions. And so I built successful. While I’m on my seventh business, I build successful businesses and sell them. But I sell them because they’re not me. They make lots of money, but they’re sucking my soul.
And so for me that breath and coming and really following my intuition coming into my body, feeling the sensations in my body of does this feel in alignment of being healthy, and being what I need in this moment, has shifted. In order for me to help people right now. It seems like all my clients right now are grieving. I lost a soulmate. And so I’ve went through figuring out how to get through that tunnel of grief. And almost all of my people are figuring out how do they create space for them. Because they’re no longer in us. They’ve either lost a child, or they’ve lost a spouse. And we forget that we co create and every moment. Yeah. And so all of a sudden when it’s just us, like what what does that feel like? What does that look like? What does that flow like? And we have to come back into our bodies and be willing to ask and that’s scary. Because we haven’t been there alone for a really long time sometimes.
Cindy Ingram 24:15
Yeah, I was talking with someone recently who was going through a divorce and she’s going through the same thing of like, oh, well, this is how I was told I should create my house by my spouse but now that we’re not together anymore, like what do I even like? You know what it was this discovery of self?
Annette Stahl 24:34
Yeah, they don’t even know and so I talked to them about what juices your energy what zaps your energy, right? Like there’s things for me when I’m in nature, I am just like I feel so alive. Being around a lot of people is a zapper for me. So when I create space, I talk about the same thing. Does this use your energy or does it zap your energy and people are sometimes surprised they have you know, maybe something from the ground And they’re like this, I hate this. I love my grandma. I don’t want to get rid of it. I don’t I hate this thing. And I was like, okay, so what can we do to honor her and allow it to leave our space? I always say if you don’t love it enough to dust it, because I hate dusting. It open space is kind of what she’s showing here. When we open space, it allows flow. If there is something in every crevice, and we’re like, we’re gonna make a change, the odds of change are gonna be a lot harder, because you’re going against the current. Yeah.
Cindy Ingram 25:36
Yeah, I think this space. And so that was one of the first things that you said, when you said that this one is what drew you when it was the space of it. And and I love that because I’ve been Yeah, I’ve been in some houses that it’s just like, oh, just, this is too much. There’s furniture everywhere. And then I just feel like I can’t even breathe. So
Annette Stahl 26:03
yeah, one of them. Her daughter has been gone for years, and died at 16. So that’s a hard one. And so she’s gotten a new home now. And we’re talking about how we honor her daughter, right? And she’s had her daughter and the entry of her home and in this home, I was like, Well, what would happen if we put a mirror and then tree and it reflected your reflected her picture and things in this other room? Because she’s still a part of your life. And you want her front and center? Every second because she told you she wanted you to live and move on heart. But do you want her to be drive everything right? Like who’s driving your car? Yeah. And so she the report back from the I call it report back from the field because I checked with people I’m like, report back from the field, how has everything to move, right? It’s just, she’s like, it has shifted so much because she’s still I honor her her. And I understand I honor her and the time she is and she’s a part of my memories, and I am starting to go make friends I’m starting to get out, right? She’s not locked in this place where she couldn’t even leave her house. So I feel like that growth, right? It’s not, we don’t have to get rid of things, we just have to figure out how to open the space. We took a big photo book. So we have a whole wall collage wall. And then the rest became a photo book instead of a whole entire house, right? Like it has its place. It’s just the thing about grief that I explained to people is when somebody first dies, it’s like you have a bookcase and the only book in there is the man you divorced or the man that died or the child that died like the bookcase doesn’t have anything else, because everything stops in that moment. And then over time, where we start adding books, we still honor them or the best part of them, whatever they gave us we live that that’s how they live on as we add books of life on our books. So
Cindy Ingram 28:15
I love that and I love the mirror that that mirror story was so powerful because I can imagine her standing in front of that mirror and she’s she’s now the focus and she can see herself she can probably see her daughter in her generation her up his or her appearance. And then she sees the stuff from her daughter but she also sees who she is who she was and who she’s becoming all in that that one space
Annette Stahl 28:41
that’s really powerful. She’s like I look in her reflections always in there. It’s in the bath. She’s got my back because yeah, because she’s her religion that she believes in angels. So it’s whatever your whatever do you believe in is what I coached to so yeah. Oh, I
Cindy Ingram 28:59
love that. Okay, so bringing it back to Margaret MacDonald McIntosh has always have a mouthful saying the name I did look it up as ink and watercolor on vellum. So that is that is probably what we’re seeing with like the bubbliness of it and like the like now that I know that are color
Annette Stahl 29:21
it’s totally like watercolor somewheres Yeah, and
Cindy Ingram 29:25
there are parts it doesn’t even look like the color kind of it was just sort of beaded on top and so I’m kind of now that I know this applies I can kind of see how that would that would work but um so looking at the the painting again now that I can officially call it a painting. What else are you noticing
Annette Stahl 29:50
it’s just the flow like though it’s like her body there’s an absence where her body was Do you see that? Like? Obviously it’s not a natural stance. So it’s almost a dance. So it feels like this dance with openness, this dance with expansion. Like it’s like she’s expanded, right? Like she just let go closed her eyes and it all just expands. She’s allowing whoever I think those are parts of herself watching herself. Yeah, past selves, maybe future selves. Maybe that penguin is her current self. And she’s just allowing it.
Cindy Ingram 30:32
Yeah. And it makes me think too, you know, I have a bubble. As you know, probably a lot of listeners. I’m sure I’ve talked about my bubble before. But you know, I like to keep people at a kind of a safe, a safe distance. But she’s she this bubble that she is in. It doesn’t feel like it is trying to keep things out. If that makes it like it feels really like inviting and it feels like warmth and like you just want to like walk in walk. It’s it’s an inviting bubble. So rather than like a repelling bubble,
Annette Stahl 31:10
I don’t see it that way. Don’t
Cindy Ingram 31:11
Annette Stahl 31:12
I felt like it’s her private space. That’s her private place. Yeah, like for me to walk into it would violate her secretly. So it feels so sacred. Her dance and her. You’re right, it doesn’t feel like it’s steel. I mean, it feels like it’s a bubble. But like, it feels like you blow bubbles and you put your finger on it. It pops, it was like, tried to stick my hand and it’s soft enough to do it. But it would pop her bubble like she wouldn’t leave the security of whatever’s experiencing. She’s experiencing this. Yeah.
Cindy Ingram 31:47
It’s, it’s interesting. Because I do feel like if I were to stick my arm in there, which just because it’s weird, but like I you know, it just to me, it feels like I would
it would I imagine that it would feel like this kind of be weird, but like you’re sticking your hand into your your dryer After it’s dried clothes or but like the sheets are, like really soft sheets, but almost like they don’t exist. But it’s like, what, what it would be like if they were like light areas. So maybe like I think maybe what I’m imagining is what it would feel like to be not that I want to enter her space. But that if I’m am in her, I think it’s me being in her position that the energy of repelling isn’t necessarily present. I think she feels safe that no one will.
Annette Stahl 32:57
I would agree. I think she’s one will. And if she was a coach, we’ll pretend she’s a coach was inviting someone into her womb, it would be so warm and comforting. Yeah. Like those warm sheets. I can see that. Yeah, like she’s like getting into her presence to be able to pull people in. But she’s not going to repel anyone. She’s just going to be her light. And if she wants to welcome people, she’ll choose that or not choose that.
Cindy Ingram 33:23
Yeah, I think that’s what I was trying to get across. And I’m wondering, like, I’m thinking about my own life. And I’m like, do I ever in my life ever feel completely comfortable and safe? Like she seems to feel? And it makes me think I can’t exactly think of that. As a as a as a, maybe this is a goal for me to feel that safe. Boy, she’s
Annette Stahl 33:58
interesting, too, because that’s one of the things I’ve been really battling with personally is feeling safe. Yeah, I cannot believe how unsafe I felt and it’s unsafe because of financial pressures unsafe because I’m shifting some career things. It’s not like my true safety is being violated. Like I live in a safe home. I live in a safe place. And so I saw one of my healers, who took me on a guided meditation and she does shiatsu. And she she made me look at her in the eyes. You are safe, and I was like, I kept closing my eyes. And she’s like, I know your brain knows but your body doesn’t. Because I have been abused. I was in a very abusive marriage where I had a gun to my head like that cold metal. I was like having dreams about the cold metal on my head to my head. And then you know, I just have been really unsafe situations. And so she was like your brain knows and you’re now The healing journey where your body needs help, because our body, every cell in our body keeps us safe. So, point we had an unsafe experience our body remembers, there’s a whole science book that says it’s called, I think the body, the body knows or the body remembers. And so it’s all that we have to do through breathing. And so she’s one of the teachers that have taught me a lot about breathing and bioenergy, and bringing up so you can actually create a energy bubble. And you feel like your whole hands turn red, and like you do this deep breath. And that’s what I did. So my soulmate had cancer, AML leukemia. And so he would get really low blood pressure, and I could make an energy bubble and put him in it, and I could raise his blood pressure. And so I had so much fun, because I didn’t know if I really believed in this stuff. I was like, all certified and doing it, but I was like, gonna find my way around on the dog who seemed amused with it.
So when I had all the machines of MD Anderson in Houston, I was so amazed that all it is is creating energy between my fingers, and then putting a party in it was just all it did was give his body cells energy, right. And so every one of our cells remembers anything that happened. And so right now, it feels like she’s just releasing all of that, like not my gig, right? Like, the cells in my body are just now my youth auric field, that little energy field around us like, and I’m just, I’m just floating in and playing in it like it’s a pool. So yeah, that’s, it feels. So I do have moments. And the crazy part is the moment I feel most safe are always in nature. I don’t feel I build homes from the ground up, I built this home, I’m sitting still feel most safe in the trees.
Cindy Ingram 37:00
So how do you bring that safety from nature into the house,
Annette Stahl 37:03
that’s why you’ll see my like, a lot of my house is like, my personal house has trees all the way around it with all these windows. And so energetically, I will bring it in by grounding our routine. So I also use elements, so not natural elements. So I find it interesting that this painting has so much water to it, right. And we both so water is all about flow and emotions. So you bring up the name of unsafe I’m Yeah, I’m sure. So if you want to feel safe, you bring tons of grounding in. So that’s clay pots and black floor black sleep floors. That’s what starts grounding you in any kind of tree routine, you know, trees will root down. So those are the things you bring in. Still, most of my traumas happened in homes, not outside. So it’s like because I can’t run and I have to find a door to get out. That’s what makes less safe for me. So you’ll always see doors everywhere. And I always can see every door. Like it’s very interesting how our body remembers.
Cindy Ingram 38:09
Oh, yeah. And I think it’s interesting. And I think about my first reaction to this to the faces is that I didn’t feel safe with him until you described what you were seeing. All I saw them they were threats and and they were like they were they were judging they were they were not like this. And that it’s interesting to study your reactions to to works of art. Because that sort of initial feeling that you get. There’s there’s usually some sort of lesson in that there’s usually some sort of like, oh, where is my nervous system being triggered by this, this and like, what does that tell me about
Annette Stahl 38:56
I also wonder about our childhoods and how they were different because I grew up in a Catholic church and in a Catholic upbringing, even though I’m spiritual out and no longer Catholic that was brought up. So this thing class we’re always saints, they were always people to keep us safe and watch over us. So the first thing I thought there was very there parts of us are angels, you know, I saw we right away. Well, that would be an archetype from my childhood.
Cindy Ingram 39:21
Yeah, I grew up Catholic too. I think to you, when you first to you called it that it looks like a church. I always see this as a stage.
Annette Stahl 39:34
Oh, so like six fair.
Cindy Ingram 39:38
Yeah. And so I think that adds to its
Annette Stahl 39:44
it does see it as a stage of makes sense of judging because we’re on the stage. There’s a critic.
Cindy Ingram 39:51
There’s, there’s a lot more vulnerability to it, talking about it as a sacred space talking about it as her like sacred space and like that has an added a lot more ease for me and looking at it. I once we noticed the burrs, because I saw them as neckties and collared shirts.
Annette Stahl 40:10
They were wings. But now that you see their birds, it would make sense. It was a stage. It makes instead it’s in and out. Yeah, I can see that.
Cindy Ingram 40:20
Yeah. It’s fascinating.
Annette Stahl 40:24
It could be you know, and then that waking up makes sense, right? Like, that is awake. It’s hard to say what the play was about. Yeah, you think it’s Shakespeare? There’s like Midsummer Night’s Dream.
Cindy Ingram 40:37
Yeah. That’s fascinating. I definitely see now more why you chose this one. Because those natural elements, the ease the breath, the lightness that. And once you started talking about the different elements, I started looking for them. Because you know, it has the water element, because it was literally made from water. The air feels like it’s present in her inner being, yeah. Like, it looks like you could just that she is made of air that she actually isn’t solid. And then the earth elements of the flowers. And that sort of now I’m like those columns could be tree trunks. But I don’t see any fire. But
Annette Stahl 41:27
I was just talking today I did a coaching call and I was talking about I really struggled to bring fire into my environment. Because I am. Like, it’s like fast. So I’ll bring orange in, I’ll bring pink and I will hardly ever bring red in. So when I see like red behind you, I laugh because you’re much more earthy and much more grounded and centered. So fire would need to keep you moving. Like I don’t need to keep moving
Cindy Ingram 41:58
I need that’s all I really think about the tubes, I think about the parts of my house that I really love are the more they’re more energetic, they’re more like bright colors and patterns and, and different things. It’s probably because you know, I’m seeking that sort of that energy that I don’t maybe naturally I do naturally have some energy, like in my mind, but like physically, I’m really more, I’m very calm of a person.
Annette Stahl 42:31
Right? So my living room is my favorite place. It is blue, it is all water elements and trees. So so because that’s where I calm down and relax.
Cindy Ingram 42:43
Well, we live in this, this world where everyone seems to want the same design in their house, especially in my neighborhood, every house I go into you just you’re gonna you know exactly what you’re gonna see. In suburban Texas, we’re gonna see some wooden signs with words painted on them, we’re gonna see, you know, we’re gonna see a lot of like farmhouse elements, we’re gonna see a lot of gray and white. And I love your your perspective that it’s really about figuring out who, who you are, what energy you need, and what you want to bring in
Annette Stahl 43:21
and giving yourself permission to change. And when I was talking to Megan, and Megan really follows the moon in the pines, and she’s very dynamic. So what she needs today is not what she’s going to need tomorrow. I said it would be interesting for us to see, especially in your workspace, what what you need in a full moon time versus what you need. Right? Like, because you follow that. So she understands that. And she was like, Yeah, that could be fun. And then another coach is, is a designer also and is redoing our office, and she’s like, I don’t have any fire in my office. And I said, Well, you are all excited that your business is organic, organically cultivating itself. So you don’t want fire. Because for you fire feels like something outside being driven. You’re, something’s driving you and you are allowing everything to cultivate and come to you. And she’s like, you’re right. And she talked about when she holds a client. She has a chair she sets in when she coaches even though she doesn’t virtually, where she can hold a client. She feels like it’s the womb, and she won’t work there should only coach there. And then she has a desk where she creates and is messy. And so it’s interesting, right? That’s all in one room. But she has spaces of what they feel like and how she wants them to feel.
Cindy Ingram 44:42
Hmm. Oh, that’s fascinating.
Annette Stahl 44:45
Yeah, one of my favorite things because we have holidays coming up so people can try this at home. One of my favorite things is to sit in every chair around the table if you’re going to have a meal with a family and see how it feels different because you look at something different. Yeah for example with my My mom always makes sure she’s looking out because looking out and seeing green is calming. And then she sat where she could see the kitchen. It’s all fired. Up. So it’s like an interesting thing versus my dad. So cool. Like, I can set him to see complete chaos, because he’s not even gonna register. Got my gig. So it’s fun to kind of do those kinds of things. And then you start to see energy and how people react and interact. And it’s good.
Cindy Ingram 45:34
That’s fascinating. I’m thinking about where we sit at the family table. And we let the kids just insisted on these two particular seats. And then my husband and I were like, that upset us. Because we didn’t, we wanted to sit in there, one of our seats, and so no one’s really only only the kids are actually happy with their seats. But I, I am the one that looks out at the kitchen, instead of looking out the window. But I like I liked that. But now that I’m thinking about and like, oh, what would it be like, if I ate my dinner with a mess of the meal that I just prepared behind me?
Annette Stahl 46:10
Yeah, it’s just fun, it’s fun to change it up. It’s fine. I tell people, like if they have a score table, I’m like, let’s make it a diamond. So that nobody can sit at the same place. You know, so it’s just fun. I’m always like, just just experiment. That’s how you start feeling like, Oh, I like how this feels, or ooh, I don’t like how this feels. And you may love how it feels. And then all of a sudden, it not feel right. And that’s okay, too. You have to give yourself permission to go through. Sometimes you quit noticing. And that means you’re now just in habit. So you now your surroundings are probably going to start piling up, you’re gonna get clutter, because you have just taken your awareness away from how do I want to feel and how am I feeling and that differentiation?
Cindy Ingram 46:53
Yeah. And that’s what I love, too about this, the figure in this painting is that, you know, she is in an environment, her eyes are closed, but she’s so at peace. But it’s not like I don’t get the feeling that she is unaware of. which goes against the fact that they’re judging because she just does not at all look like they’re, they’re judging her. But you know that she is just so in tune with how she feels and how she wants to feel.
Annette Stahl 47:27
Yeah, I felt like complete alignment with her flow. That’s what I like, I love when I, when I have space, I’m in alignment with my flow, it just never last long enough.
Cindy Ingram 47:42
That’s when your that’s when your fire comes out. You’re just like, oh,
well why it makes me think too, that I think that so much of the like self development world and the world and I don’t know, maybe it’s just the self development world that’s just or maybe the spirituality world that’s like, you have to aspire to this feeling of peace and this feeling of Zen. And and in the end that we’re seeing that in this painting, but also like what you’re saying is like you can use your environment to bring you into lots of different types of feelings and to energy and to, and then that’s okay. And for somebody, it’s like completely antithesis to what this painting is, I think but the there feels like freedom and permission in that.
Annette Stahl 48:40
I felt like freedom and permission. Yes, yeah. And I felt like it sometimes as women, we have to give ourselves permission. Like we’re looking for validation and permission outside ourselves. And I just feel like she gave herself permission. Like I give myself permission to Flo. I mean, she’s coughing she’s all you know, like, Oh, no. Like she’s in her element. Okay, so
Cindy Ingram 49:08
we are kind of coming up on 50 minutes or so we’ve been talking. I don’t know what I didn’t write down when we started. But what else is there that you’re noticing that has been left unsaid? Anything?
Annette Stahl 49:25
I don’t think so. I think we did a good job covering it.
Cindy Ingram 49:29
Yeah. Yeah. And I love this. I never, you know, come into these with any sort of preparation. I mean, like I picked the artwork, but I don’t want to spend too much time with it because I I just want to see what happens. And I love how you allowed me to see things in this artwork that I hadn’t seen before. And I have actually seen this one many times because this one is in our membership site. We have a lesson plan on this in my oh grader. I don’t think I wrote this lesson but I have you know, read the lesson and you know, we’ve used it many times and I’ve looked at it many times but But I’ve never looked at it as closely as I have with you. So I really appreciate what you have brought to my understanding of, of this. So that was
Annette Stahl 50:10
I love, we get to bring our own understanding and our own perspective. And I always tell people about their spaces like this is yours.
Cindy Ingram 50:20
So how can someone work with you? If they’ve just really You’ve piqued their interest and and they want your consulting services? What should they do?
Annette Stahl 50:31
A design discovery is my website, so they can go there. And we’ll have that in the link and you just set up some discovery call, I always want us to be a fit. So it’s a free discovery call for us to figure out what is going to help you. If it’s not me, I usually know someone perfect fit for what you’re looking to do. You can follow me on social media Annette Stahl. And so Facebook is really I do Facebook and Instagram. Awesome. You can get design ideas.
Cindy Ingram 51:00
Yeah, yeah, I get a lot of them from from watching your your Facebook. So if they were to book a call, so is it? Is it more like you’re creating designs for them? Or is it more like you give them general vibes and you’ve still got conversation
Annette Stahl 51:14
on what they need. So like, right now I can do a drafting. So I drafted do blueprints, so I’m doing an old barn and helping someone do that virtually. Sometimes it is coaching. So it means here’s how my life is and here’s what’s not working, and I don’t know what to do. And so we zoom or we FaceTime your space. And sometimes we don’t want to talk about our feelings. Sometimes we’re just over it. And sometimes it’s easier to clean something than to talk about our feelings, and it does the same thing. So I yeah, I deal with lots of engineers and finance people because they don’t really want to talk about feelings, but they really want a house that looks awesome. And feels like them. And it’s a place to replenish. So I’ll work with them that way. Because it’s muck, usually my programs are going to be three months to seven months. Because if we only do a few sessions, you go, Oh, I have all these insights, but you don’t do anything. You just have a nice thought. It passes. You don’t actually do the the integration. So I feel like you always have to, I’m always there for you to get you through the integration, so that you can actually see it come to life. So that’s why when we talk about programs, they’re three to seven months, unless you’re just looking for a plan, then that’s kind of quick.
Cindy Ingram 52:33
Yeah. Awesome. And I can vouch for Netzwerk because I was in sessions she led and she was talking to us about Fung Shui, and I, you know, took the Bagua Map, and I put it over my office. And I looked at the I hadn’t had any enrollees from a program yet. I think it had been open a couple days. And I saw the corner of my office that was finances, was the chair just covered and stuff. And then so in the middle of the session, I’m still listening, but I just walked over the office chair, and I ordered the chair in the corner. I cleaned it all up. And then 30 minutes later, I got my first sale. So I was like, oh,
Annette Stahl 53:12
yeah, it’s amazing. And you can go as deep as you want, or as little as you want. And there’s no judgement. There are times we just need to skim the surface and get some things flowing. And we’ll go deep later, totally fine. Non judgement is the biggest feedback I get is what I get lots of love. Lots of laughs and zero judgment. Biggest feedback.
Cindy Ingram 53:32
So good. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. We’ll put all your links in the show notes. But yeah, thank you so much.
Annette Stahl 53:39
It was fun. I always love spending time with you. Indeed.
Cindy Ingram 53:43
All right, that was my conversation with an install about mysterious garden by Margaret MacDonald, McIntosh, and in our interview and that and mentioned Megan, when she was talking about an example of bringing the full moon vibes into your space. And just wanted to point out that the Megan that she’s talking about is Megan Winkler and Megan Winkler will be on the podcast next week. So stay tuned for the next episode to learn more about Megan’s Full Moon witchy vibes, and how she integrates that with business. So looking forward to our discussion. If you want to have an art discussion on art itself, please send me an email Cindy at our class curator.com. I am looking for new and exciting and passionate and creative and insightful people to have these amazing conversations with and if you’re listening to this, I know that’s you. So send me an email. I can’t wait to hear from you. I will see you all next week. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to art and self and if you loved what you heard, please consider leaving me a rating or a review on iTunes and share this episode with one friend who you know needs to hear are what we talked about today, you will find links to the artworks that we discussed over at the show notes. And you can find me on Instagram and Facebook at Cindy Needs Art. Thank you so much for listening and have a wonderful week. I’ll see you next time.
Free Audio Download
Art Connection Meditation
In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.
Subscribe and Review in iTunes
Have you subscribed to the podcast? I don’t want you to miss an episode and we have a lot of good topics and guests coming up! Click here to subscribe on iTunes!
If you are feeling extra kind, I would LOVE it if you left us a review on iTunes too! These reviews help others find the podcast and I truly love reading your feedback. You can click here to review and select “Write a Review” and let me know what you love best about the podcast!