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podcast

How Compassion in the Creative Process Leads to Layered Connections and Deep Impact with Heather Fraser

Creating a work of art is a process—a process that can change who you are. Too often, we judge or rush our creative pursuits, ignoring the messages included in every brushstroke or written word. We end up saying too much or not enough.

But when we approach the creative process with patience and compassion, we make connections with ourselves and with all who resonate with our work. And the impact? It’s infinite.

Heather Doyle Fraser is a publisher, writer, and coach who believes in the power of voice and works with writers to bring their words to the world. In fact, she’s helping me write my book! Together we discussed the deep work and tangled process of creation through the artwork Alison the Lacemaker by Swoon.

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Artwork Choices

Links Mentioned

  • The Ecstasy of Saint Theresa by Gian Lorenzo Bernini
  • Compassionate Mind Collaborative
  • Heather Doyle Fraser – Website, Facebook, Instagram
  • Art and Self on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: artists, books, creating, creative process, podcast, writing

 

Ghost Stories in Art: Delighting in Paranormal History and Experiences with Jane Mesa

Do you believe in ghosts? Have you ever had a paranormal experience? Are you drawn to ghost stories in art?

Jane Mesa’s first encounter with a ghost happened in her childhood bedroom. Now she investigates the paranormal. Jane joined me to discuss her experiences, both frightful and delightful, as we discuss Haunted House by Morris Kantor.

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Artwork Choices

Links Mentioned

  • Unearthly: History & Paranormal Investigation – Website, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook
  • Art and Self on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: ghost, haunted, paranormal, podcast

 

Motherhood, Bodies, and Being Whole: How to Feel Contentment in Our Conflicting Ways with Krystal Craiker

What is your relationship to your body? Our society does not make it easy to have a healthy, loving connection to your body. Krystal and I discuss how motherhood changed our bodies, how being fat affected how we move through the world, and how our thirties brought healing and wholeness.

This episode contains conversation about an eating disorder.

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Artwork Choices

Links Mentioned

  • Krystal Craiker – Website, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter
  • Art and Self on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: fat, motherhood, podcast

 

Art With the Rising Tides: How To Find Hope and Power in Climate Change with Nikole Pearson

How do you feel when you think about climate change?

Overwhelmed? Scared? Hopeless?

Nikole Pearson has a different point of view. Together, we discussed one of Jason deCairnes Taylor’s powerful underwater sculptures and Nikole shared her insight on how we can find hope and opportunity in the rising tides.

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Artwork Choices

Links Mentioned

  • Nikole Pearson – Website
  • Underwater artworks by Jason deCairnes Taylor
  • The Weather Project by Olafur Eliasson
  • Art and Self on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: climate change, Jason deCairnes Taylor, podcast

 

The Discomfort of Being With: Unarmored Presence in the Wild Edges of Being Human with Allison Crow

I’ve been talking about The Two Fridas for years with hundreds of students and teachers, and I even have a chapter of my upcoming memoir dedicated to it. But when Allison Crow chose it for today’s podcast episode, I was happy to get to spend more time with it, but I wasn’t really expecting any big new insights about the painting. 

Gosh was I wrong. 

And I’m not that surprised. Allison, my friend, coach, writing buddy, and author of the new book, Unarmored: Finding Home in the Wild Edges of Being Human (affiliate link), is nothing if not brilliant and insightful. I absolutely loved this conversation with her about The Two Fridas.

We talked about so much in that hour–knowing ourselves, being present with our pain, our emotions, and all of our parts, and the beauty and healing power of connection.

After our discussion, we noted that Frida is a beautiful model for us on how to live authentically and how to be truly there and present with yourself.

It was such a beautiful conversation, and I hope you enjoy it too. 

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Links Mentioned
  • Unarmored: Finding Home in the Wild Edges of Being Human*
  • Allison Crow Instagram, Facebook, TikTok
  • The Heart Speaks*
  • Art and Self on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube

*Affiliate Link

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: podcast

 

Revealing the Door Into Our Hearts: Delighting in the Duality of Creative Existence with Yoga Mehmeti

In this episode of the Art & Self Podcast, I welcome someone who has been influential and instrumental in my own life, Yola Mehmeti. Yola works with energy and helps people create spaciousness in their lives. It’s hard to describe what she does, but I can say from experience that it is pure magic.

Art is magic too. It can act like medicine in our body, clearing out wounds and allowing us to share and be vulnerable. Art changes with us. They say you never cross the same river twice because your journey makes you a different person. You never see the same artwork twice either. Your life changes what you see and how you interpret it.

Yola and I spoke how the meaning we find is shaped by our experiences and choices, and how our choices and experiences are shaped by the meaning we make.

The artwork discussed on this episode is from the exhibit The Real Deal is Talking to Dad by Chen Ke. You can find the artwork here.

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Links Mentioned
  • Yola’s Instagram
  • yola@yolamehmeti.com
  • The Real Deal is Talking to Dad by Chen Ke
  • Dream of Wings by Kelcey Loomer
  • Birthday by Dorothea Tanning
  • Marilyn by Audrey Flack
  • mother! Motion Picture
  • Cindy Needs Art on Facebook and Instagram

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: podcast, vulnerability

 

Messages From Nature and the Expansive Universe: How To Find Peace Within Yourself with Angie Stegall

In this episode of the Art & Self Podcast, I welcome Angie Mattsen Stegall. Angie is an author and Executive Coach. We talked about our connection to nature, the interconnectedness of all things, and the many rooms we hold inside ourselves. Learn about the power of forest bathing (and hear about our little adventure).

What happens when you slow down and pay attention to the world around you?

The artwork discussed on this episode is an artwork by Vasilis Avramidis from the Caretakers exhibit (Source – The artwork is the 9th image on this page).

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Links Mentioned
  • Vasilis Avramidis artwork
  • The Forest has Eyes by Bev Doolittle
  • Night by Natalie Wadlington
  • Poet on a Mountaintop by Shen Zhou
  • Birds and Flowers of the Four Seasons
  • Angie’s website and LinkedIn
  • Notes from Nature book
  • Cindy Needs Art on Facebook and Instagram

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Get Inspired

Free Audio Download

Art Connection Meditation

In this free meditation, take the time to connect with your deepest self and find your path forward through art. Get your free meditation here.

Filed Under: Podcast
Tagged With: interpretation, nature, peace, podcast

 

Should You Fight the Storm or Surrender to Its Force?

In this episode of the Art & Self Podcast, I welcome Megan Winkler, The Good Business Witch. Megan is a leadership and anti-burnout coach. We spoke about time, the choices women have, chaos, slowing down, and burnout. This conversation gave us both chills.

The artwork discussed on this episode is Looking Back by Erik Johansson.

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  • Looking Back by Erik Johansson
  • The Good Business Witch
  • Megan Winkler
  • Megan Winkler on Instagram
  • Coworking Coven
  • Art & Self Connection Circle — Self-Study
  • Cindy Needs Art on Facebook and Instagram
  • Christina’s World by Andrew Wyeth

This transcript was auto-generated, so please excuse any typos or misspellings.

Cindy Ingram 0:02
Hello, and welcome to art and self. I’m Cindy Ingram, your host and the founder of art class curator, the curated connections library and the art and self connection circle. This is a podcast where we experience the range and depth of what it means to be human seen through our connections and conversations about work smart. These aren’t conversations are here to show you that art is here for you as a catalyst, Challenger, to coach and comfort. Before we get started, take a moment to fill up your lungs with a deep breath, connect with your body and your mind and your spirit and get ready to discover what art has to show you.

Today on the podcast, we have the amazing Megan Winkler and she will introduce herself in a bit. But before we get started, I just wanted to tell you a quick story about what happened with the recording of this episode. So I recorded this episode The day before, the art and self connection circles regular weekly meeting. So we spent this wonderful hour with Megan picking apart this work of art, we we ended up at a really cool place that gave us both chills. And you’ll get to experience that here in this episode. And then, you know, inspired by our conversation, I brought the same artwork to the art and self connection circle to have them discuss because it kind of fit in with the theme of the day. And you know, it was really inspired to continue talking about it. And then when I put it up in that room, they got a completely different

interpretation than the one that Megan and I had worked on. And it was fascinating to me and I was so thrown off by what they were saying because it was really different. So I don’t want to spoil it for you, I want you to really hear what me and Meghan have to say. And then I’ll come back at the end of the episode and tell you what the people in the art and self connection circle had to say about the artwork was really it. It kind of blew my mind just a little bit and it really shows how art changes with whoever’s looking at it, that what you bring a lot to the artwork when you get in front of it, that it’s not just this one thing that you know always has the same meaning and that can change and depending on what you notice and what you don’t notice. In this case, what you don’t notice. It changes everything. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Megan. Hello. I am so excited to welcome Meghan Winkler to the podcast. Hello, Megan

Megan Winkler 2:44
Hello How are you Cindy?

Cindy Ingram 2:46
I’m doing great. So excited to be with you. I have four really awesome works of art. I’m really once I got the fourth one like locked in I was like yes, these are. These are perfect. So hopefully you like them as much as I do. But before we get started, can you introduce yourself to our listeners?

Megan Winkler 3:02
Absolutely. I am so happy to be here. I seriously woke up so excited about this conversation. It’s gonna be so much fun. I’m Meghan Winkler, I am also known as the good business witch and I am on a mission to help women build their businesses in a way that really supports them eliminates burnout. And obviously, as the name implies, I receive a lot of actual magic and intuition and and like days of the week energy and all that into my work as well. So it’s a really cool experience.

Cindy Ingram 3:35
Wonderful. So we’ll put links to all your stuff in the show notes and then by the end of this you’ll know a lot more about what Meghan to and what what she’s all about. So um let me put up our art and let you choose one so take Give me one second while I get this

Okay, and so what I want you to do is look at them not intellectually and in your mind but like what really gives you the most what really really draws you in emotionally what makes you want to talk about it, what makes you captivated and we’ll go from there. Okay, so this one is for our listeners so they know what you’re looking at. This is the nightmare by Henry Fuselli. And then we have sopa de Europa by Miquel Barcelo. Looking back by Erik Johansson and Minotaurus by Ndipha Mntambo

Megan Winkler 4:38
wow these are also good. is this Minotaurus at the DMA

Cindy Ingram 4:45
but it’s not it’s at the High Museum in Atlanta.

Okay, cuz I feel like I’ve seen this one before like in person. Um, you know what, I’m so torn between the second and the third one though.

unless you look I might again

Megan Winkler 5:01
yeah. Oh, that’s so cool let’s do this one I don’t like the other one is like, like, I love it and it’s dark and confusing. And I want to like get into it, but I don’t know.

Cindy Ingram 5:24
This is calling you and this is the right answer. Awesome. This one is looking back by Erik Johansson. And yeah, the other one. I’ve actually talked about a lot. This one I’ve ever gotten to interpret before. So I’m kind of excited to chose that one. So I can I like ones that I’ve never really explored. Alright, so let me get this a little bit bigger for us. Okay, all right. So let’s start with the description for our listeners and listeners. Please don’t look at this while you’re driving. But the picture of it will be in the show notes. So you want to start the description?

Megan Winkler 6:13
Sure. So it’s it looks very like contemporary to me. I’m not sure like, what do we have the date on this one?

Cindy Ingram 6:13
We do. I think it’s 20. It is contemporary. It’s like in the last few years to about 2020. Yeah,

Megan Winkler 6:13
okay. Yeah. So it has that very, like contemporary like, it’s happening right now thing and it really reminds me of being on some farmland. Like out in like Ann Arbor, Michigan. I saw. Yeah, I saw a barn that look like this. But there is a barn and kind of in the background. And in the foreground, you see, this woman who looks like she’s got her back turned to the wind. And she’s looking back at this barn. And it’s like, as I look at it more, there’s like a child’s over there as well. Maybe there’s a tornado coming. You know, but it also looks like there’s some kind of spirits in the background. There’s a lot of this a lot.

Cindy Ingram 7:36
Yeah. So I would add to this description that it is a photograph. It’s kind of hard to tell you. It could be Yeah, it looks like it could be a painting. Because the colors are so vibrant. And it has a strong diagonal road that goes through it. And she’s on the road. We can’t tell exactly if she’s walking forward or going back like what is actually happening with her. But the wind has her hair blowing straight. And then the there’s trees and stuff around her but they’re they’re blurred. And then the barn is like the roof. Parts of the roof are flying up. And then there’s parts of the trees flying around as well. And then it’s like a cloudy, cloudy day with the sun really bright in the top left.

Megan Winkler 7:36
Over on the right in the bottom right, too. Yeah, yeah. Her shadow and everything.

Cindy Ingram 7:36
Yeah. And even gets more clear as you go towards the back. And usually it’s the opposite. Like the the background is more blurred than the foreground. The foreground is really blurred. Although she’s not blurred.

Megan Winkler 7:36
Yeah, she really stands out. It’s really an interesting image. I love that it’s a photograph, too.

Cindy Ingram 8:30
Yeah, this artist does a lot of like surreal photography and like different angles to make it look confusing. I think he probably at some of them, he has to surely edit because the way they’re they they’re done. But this one, it’s hard to tell exactly. Alright, so what do you want to talk about? First, what really is drawing you in? Here,

Megan Winkler 8:30
I think what’s so captivating about this image is it almost has kind of like that Marvel movie, a superhero esque movement to it, that you can’t really tell either if she’s running away from something and looking back at it, or if she has come and like turned all the way around. And like, I don’t know, almost like the wind is pushing her toward it. It’s just, I don’t know, it’s this confusion of like movement back and forth.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
And I’m noticing too, that her something we didn’t mention in the description, but her body is in a diagonal line that is opposite from the diagonal line of the road. So like the diagonal line of her body and the diagonal, diagonal line of the road really, like meet and form a lot of like dynamic energy. And it’s confusing, because if we were to see a picture of someone walking down the road, their body would be more straight up and if they’re running, they would be kind of leaning forward a little bit but she’s leaning way back. And so it’s it really is like off putting or can’t figure out which way is up.

Megan Winkler 9:16
Yeah, yeah. And it kind of has that like that like quick hitting the brakes. Yeah, as well. And yeah, it’s just really, really interesting. And I mean, you know, aren’t being from Texas, it’s like, you kind of get the sense that there is like this big wind or this tornado coming through because there’s the barn flying off and the roof is half missing. And you know, all the limbs and all that. But I love how she’s also just like in this bright sunlight.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
Yeah. One thing I’m noticing too is if you look at the at her feet, it gets a little bit of a clue because in front of her toes, there’s like dirt flying up. And it’s like, you know, when you’re we’ve been watching a lot of baseball lately, my husband’s obsessed with baseball, but in the World Series is about to happen. But, you know, when they slide in the dirt, you know, the dirt flies up. So it’s like, she, her body is going forward, but she’s trying to, it’s almost like she’s trying to keep herself from going forward, because it’s like, her toes are like planted in the ground and the dirt is flying up. Like, there’s that friction. So something’s pulling, maybe pulling her forward. But she’s resisting that.

Megan Winkler 9:16
Yeah. And what I find is interesting to that is it looks like in front of the barn, it almost looks like this little boy figure with like, a red hat, maybe looking away from her. And I don’t know, I’m seeing like, a lot of just hard to make out shapes of like, maybe there’s other people or maybe there’s spirits, or it’s kind of very, like kind of Southern Gothic field too, which is interesting.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
Yeah. Yeah, it’s funny where you see the boy, I see just little, like, bokeh lights, you

know, those like, oh, yeah, yeah, I

just kind of see it as light. But oh, that’s wild. It’s, it’s hard to make out because that particular part of the photograph is very blurred.

Megan Winkler 9:16
Very much. So. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s kind of like, okay, so what what is in the direction that she is looking that, like, is something that she does not want to go forward? Toward? Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
What do you think that’d be? Yeah, I

Megan Winkler 9:16
don’t know. I don’t know. I mean, there’s, there’s the thought of like, maybe there’s a message of domesticity there that maybe it’s another part. Maybe it’s a house? Yeah. And yeah, I don’t know. Did you have a copy?

Cindy Ingram 9:16
Yeah, it’s interesting, because you would think if it were like a tornado or a storm or something like she, that the end of the road looks like, that’s where you would want to go. It’s not very windy over there. It’s sunny. Like, everything’s more clear. Like, yeah, go there. But she’s doesn’t she’s just like, trying to stay into like that vortex, like, blurred energy.

Megan Winkler 9:16
And that’s what struck me. And when I was picking it is that it’s like, there’s this big huge force coming from the right hand side of the picture where it’s obvious. It’s it is it is heavy enough to throw branches off trees and shingles off roofs. And at the same time, it looks like she’s running away from that building. Yeah. And running away from maybe running away from that life.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
Yeah, but she’d she’d rather be in the chaos. Then be there.

Megan Winkler 9:16
Yeah. Well, and the chaos is really interesting sometimes, right? Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
I can definitely speak to that like chaos. It’s more it’s fun.

Megan Winkler 9:16
Well, I love how like her dress could be from any period of time, but then her sandals like they look like very modern. Get it like DSW or something, right? They’re not old fashion. Because my first thought was when I first looked at it, I was like, Oh, this is kind of like a 40s like a 30s. Dustbowl coming on theme. And it’s not.

Cindy Ingram 9:16
Okay. Something that just popped in my head. I’m going to open up another browser. Do you know the painting Christina’s World?

Megan Winkler 9:16
I don’t know. I don’t know that. I know it from that. And that name?

Cindy Ingram 9:16
You might once you see it, you’ll like oh, yeah, I’ve seen that before.

Megan Winkler 9:16
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 14:39
So this has a very big Christina’s World vibe. Isn’t the same color dress. I mean, it’s in the Christina’s worlds pink in the art painting or photograph. It’s like a brighter red. There’s a barn slash house in the background. But in this one, I just put it up on the screen. So listeners are also linked to this too. It looks like that’s where she wants to be. So it’s like the opposite of Christina’s World.

Megan Winkler 14:46
Yeah. It’s almost like Christina grew up.

Unknown Speaker 14:51
It was like, I want to live

Cindy Ingram 14:55
Yeah, like everything I always thought I wanted I actually don’t want anymore yeah. Yeah, so much so I can I can ring true to that, like, I worked so hard towards a goal recently, and, and once I kind of got the goal, I was like, Ooh, I don’t, I don’t know that I like it here. And this is not right. And then so it just like threw my whole world into chaos because I didn’t know what I actually wanted. Yeah. So I can, I can definitely relate to that. For sure. It makes me think of women too. It’s just like, we there’s this narrative that women, you know, want to get married and have children and like, do this thing. And we just kind of follow the steps. And now, I mean, we’re, we have more options than we did. But that you know, I know a lot of women, especially when their kids are little, they’re like, what, what did I? How did I get myself here? Is this one I really want? Yeah, it’s like your life is sort of chaotic at that moment, too. So, yeah,

Megan Winkler 16:00
I’m just kind of thinking about it as well, like, in context of, you know, it was released in 2020. So who knows how long it took, you know, or when he took the photograph? Yeah. You know, it’s like, especially in the past couple of years, it’d be interesting to see what this this photograph how it gets interpreted, you know, like, 50 years down the road, because right now, you know, we’re seeing so many trends of, you know, still women are making are having to make these really hard decisions about, do I stay at my work? Do I just say, you know, what I call it quits, and let you know, our family will be a one income household, I’ll go home, take care of the kids, because it’s expensive, and like, we’re all still like, living with those effects of the pandemic, right. I was reading an article this morning, about how test scores are way down for school kids. And it’s like, this is the ripple effect. And so, you know, it’s like, on top of, like, all of the, the, you know, tug and pull of being a woman of, I want to have a career and also be a good partner or wife, mother, whatever. Like, there’s also like a societal polls as well. And so I really find, I find the imagery in this really interesting in that it is so contemporary, and it looks like it could be from any time the past like century honestly, like, yeah, you could almost see her in the 1920s or the 1930s out at her her little secluded home on this little dirt path.

Cindy Ingram 17:43
Yeah, as you were talking, it kind of made me think about

that like the this sort of blurred landscape that’s trying to pass her by could represent like, the velocity of life, you know, just, it’s something that we all experienced, the pandemic just just was like a stop. And we kind of got used to that stop. And then now life is back to being like, fast paced again, and doing like, even this morning, I’m like driving my daughter forget something. And then she does this. And then my other daughter has a 3d filter, you know, so there’s like, things after things after things. And, and I’ve had a lot of conversations with people that were kind of resisting that now. It’s just like, we liked that it was slow, and we liked that things were calm. But we also like, Well, we still need to give our kids experiences and they still need to have a life and what does that mean for me when I just want to slow down but I still have to I still have to participate in that. Chaos. For me.

Megan Winkler 18:53
That’s right. Like maybe she’s like, she knows she’s going to turn into the chaos. Like maybe she just really actually did nail that sourdough recipe.

Cindy Ingram 19:05
I wasn’t quite done with that.

Megan Winkler 19:07
Yeah, cuz no, you make an excellent point. Like, it’s almost as if it’s we’ve gotten as close to the pre pandemic normal. I think then we have been before. And people are like, I mean, people like society, like we’re forgetting about all the self care that we so got into in 2020. And 2021 is like, Oh, now we’re gonna go do the thing. And, um, you know, here in the States, it’s just such a fast paced life. And, you know, it’s like productivity and high energy and there’s working ourselves to the bone is glamorized and all that stuff. And it’s like, there’s definitely, you know, I could definitely see this subject like, wanting to fight against that. At or knowing that it’s inevitable, right? Because there’s this huge wind on this one side of this painting, or this is called it a painting. It looks like a painting. And like, it’s that kind of wistful, like, No, I don’t want it to go away. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 20:19
So you I noticed interest in your business over the last year, you’ve been talking more and more about burnout? How do you find burnout represented in this artwork, that’s I almost said painting too.

Megan Winkler 20:36
Seriously, if you’re not seeing this in a video, you should go look this up. This is gorgeous. Yeah, burnout, it’s just what really struck strikes me is that there are so many powerful forces in our lives. And it’s like, you can almost see the wind is, or the movement, I mean, I’m assuming it’s the wind is kind of the, it’s the giant vortex that we can all get caught up in. And, you know, this is, I think this transcends gender, it’s like, there’s always something that we want to get back to, we want to get back to family, or we want to get back to friends or self care, or, you know, something, or some passion, right? Like, we want to get back to our art or writing. And, you know, but there’s, there’s all these forces that we can so easily fall in the clutches of, you know, and just kind of get in the big swirl of it all. And there’s always there’s always that conflict, like, I mean, that’s one of the things in my work is like, yep, stress is always going to be there. And conflict is always going to be there. And it doesn’t have to get to that burnout point. But we do need to do, you need to recognize and learn how to manage those conflicts between the vortex of the world and the gogogo. And the, you know, the boss that wants you to work 10 hours instead eight, or whatever. And then also, you know, what’s good for you and your desires and your personal life?

Cindy Ingram 22:19
Yeah. And I was really sort of, as you were talking, you know, looking at the artwork, and I’m saying, the tension on her body, like her legs are tensed up, you know, doing, trying to hold herself back. She’s got, you know, she’s falling backwards, I can kind of imagine what that must feel like. And that constant flow of work, like the toll it’s taking on our body, like the grading of our teeth, and the tensing of our muscles is we’re just powering through that, you know, that has such a physical effect. And I have, I often find when I’m looking at artwork, I did it with the, the one that I am, my, my conversation with a net on the podcast last week, was I keep finding myself just putting myself into her role and imagining what it would feel like and and I wanted, I wanted also I keep doing that, and it’s like, really kind of uncomfortable to do that. But I’m finding myself like, wanting to tell her to just, like, let go. Yeah. You know, like, just stop fighting. And I’m wondering what would happen if she would stop fighting?

Megan Winkler 23:37
Yeah. Well, I think that’s what’s interesting about that is, you know, I agree, like, there’s this, you want to say, like, Go, and I did just notice on her left hand there, it does look like she’s wearing a wedding ring. Interesting. Point it seriously, like, the longer I look at it, there’s more Yeah. But what I also was looking at as you’re speaking is kind of because we can’t see her face, but we can infer the shape of her profile a little bit, kind of near the top, like, you can see kind of a bit of her forehead. You can kind of imagine, like, where her chin would be. And I think it’s interesting that it’s like she, in this kind of chaos. She doesn’t have an identity, beyond the fact that she’s in this pinkish red dress. Wearing sandals, which are not like, renowned for their durability. Yeah. And, you know, got her wedding ring on. And, you know, I think that’s part of it is like we as women kind of struggle with, you know, who am I outside of, you know, either the home or the crazy vortex of, you know, work and you know, all of the responsibilities we have to write because there’s a big crossover, right, it’s so we’ve got it It needs to go to soccer practice, that’s a responsibility that is going to take our time and energy that doesn’t have to do with work. Yeah. So but yeah, I just kind of like, I like how she’s also she’s kind of leaning into it for, like to push against it. And so that’s why her feet are dragging, but she’s not looking toward the vortex err, you know? Yeah. And it’s interesting. It’s like, yeah, what happened if you just didn’t find it?

Cindy Ingram 25:29
Yeah, I keep going back and forth. Because I’m like, Well, okay, once I said, let go, but then I was like, Well, what if letting go gives her? What she doesn’t want? So if she was, so is she resisting something? So I’m gonna have to do this in an actual real life example. So this kind of thing I thought I wanted. I pushed really hard for a long time. And I had a lot of intuition, nudges, signs. I knew well before, but I was on the wrong path. But I was like, No, this is my goal. I had this. I can’t I can’t change that. So it’s like I always I was ignoring a lot of the signs that were telling me early on to change course. And it wasn’t until like, everything fell to pieces. And then I was burned out for an entire over at least a year. Did I actually like, oh, start to listen, like, oh, I should have been, I should have listened to that. I shouldn’t have just powered through that. So part of me is like, is letting go and then her in her place? Here is it is letting go giving in to this thing that she’s resisting? And just or is letting go. Moving her closer to what she want. Like, what? Is it good or bad here? Yeah. I can’t I can’t quite figure out what would happen if she lets go.

Megan Winkler 27:11
Yeah. So interesting. Because it’s kind of the concept of like, surrender is not giving up. Like there’s a, there’s a Florence in the machine lyric that says I’m not giving up, I’m just giving in. And it’s like, kind of using your story. You know, I’m also seeing kind of a rainbow behind her almost kind of like a lens.

Cindy Ingram 27:39
Oh, yeah, I see that.

Megan Winkler 27:40
Yeah, I’m loving this, you know. And it’s like, if she stopped fighting the wind that’s pushing her from behind. Then she flies off, let’s just say like, let’s just get imagine. He flies off, like the limbs and the shingles from the building. But she’s going down a path already. And she’s headed toward the sunlight. So it’s kind of like, yeah, if she just surrendered. And not that it’s like, she’s quitting, but she stopped fighting the overwhelming force. Does that mean she ends up in a sunny, beautiful pasture? Where all is good? I don’t know.

Cindy Ingram 28:26
Yeah. Maybe that’s what it feels like. And it makes me think of, you know, have you read the recent render experiment? Michael singer?

Megan Winkler 28:35
No. Need to Yeah, it’s

Cindy Ingram 28:37
good. He also read wrote the other one’s better the other books better? What’s the other one called? Well, he wrote a book about kind of about meditation and his journey there. But then surrender experiment was a memoir about his life, or he just basically decided to say yes to everything, like, follow every single nudge at the universe. And he ended up creating this giant, this giant meditation space, and he ended up creating WebMD

Megan Winkler 29:08
Oh, like, like,

Cindy Ingram 29:10
I mean, it’s just like, he’s like a millionaire. So like, he knows it’s, it’s a really crazy story, but that’s what it was. He was just like, he allowed himself to fully surrender to all of those nudges that he was getting. And yeah, it was it was really fascinating. But his other book Gosh, why can’t I think of it? Hold on, I’m just going to look up the name because I really think everybody should read this book. Yeah, and once I see the name I’m gonna be like, of course, oh, Untethered Soul was the other one. Oh, okay. Yeah, so good. Anyway, very cool. It’s one of those that I just like pick up and read again every now and then. Because it’s so good. But yeah, so then um, so it’s part of me is like, Okay, then. Is this the Yeah, are is this wind pushing her? Be the nudges that have the Reverse the nudges of intuition. And because she’s resisting that part of her intuition that she’s staying in this chaotic dark place, and if she just allowed it to, like, guide her and lead her through, she would end up in this peaceful sunny situation.

Megan Winkler 30:17
Well, that’s the thing is, from experience, I can tell you if the universe has some nudges for you, ignore them. They get to be real big nudges.

Cindy Ingram 30:27
Yeah. Yeah. My I didn’t tell ya my my story is there was two very giant knock me on my ass got just over like, really dramatic. And that’s when I finally started to listen, because it’s like, oh, okay, I need to pay him. I need to pay attention. Oh, yeah.

Megan Winkler 30:47
After a certain point, the universe gives us really big yeses or really big nose. Yeah. It’s like, Oh, okay. I should listen to that.

Cindy Ingram 30:55
Yeah. So that makes me think of your, your work with the good business, which and? And how do you what I really love about your work is that you do have an MBA you have, you know, you have all like the knowledge and information and stuff about it. But you also add this sort of mystical component. How do you combine those two in your work?

Megan Winkler 31:21
Oh, my gosh, it’s it’s a daily thing, right? It’s because I came across a tick tock audio that was like, do I believe that witchcraft is just spicy? Psychology? I’m like, Yes, I do.

Cindy Ingram 31:36
Love writing that down.

Megan Winkler 31:39
Yeah, it’s so good. And it’s like, Okay, before we had sciences, we do now it was alchemy, and it was magic. And so I firmly believe that, you know, our intuition and, you know, setting, setting intentions for things, even casting spells, like, we will at some point, have the science to say, Well, yeah, so when you do that it shapes this thing in your brain, or there’s an electromagnetic magnetic field around us that shifts like, we just don’t have the science to explain it yet. So for me, I love bringing kind of that intuitive, magical spiritual element into business, because we are full humans. And I think that a lot of business coaches, and I have many business coaches, they are like, very strategic, they’re very, like, masculine energy. They’re very, like data oriented, KPIs ROI is, you know, all the things, right. And all the stuff that, like, goes into getting an MBA, so it’s good to know about that stuff, and then kind of start breaking the rules. Because I work primarily with women and women, we just do things differently. Like, we talk through solutions a lot more than men tend to, or, you know, we will trust our gut for things outside of work or outside of our business. So it’s like, well, how do we do that in our business. So I really work with my clients and encourage them to, you know, do all of the things that make them a productive business owner, including, take a nap, go to a yoga class, you know, go on a walk with your dog, pull your paints out, like, these are all business activities, as well as you know, tracking your daily marketing and sales or posting on social media or meeting with your clients and that sort of thing. So I just find that that balance between kind of a divine masculine and divine feminine energy in your business is just, it’s like the sweet spot. It’s amazing.

Cindy Ingram 33:55
Yeah, I agree. That’s what I’ve read. I’ve, I have been in that situation with a business coach who I would leave the sessions, and everything she was saying, I’m like, oh, yeah, this makes perfect sense. And, you know, like, she gave me all these things. And we talked through and I would get to the end of it, and I’m like, I don’t want to do any of that. It was like, I was like, This doesn’t feel right. This doesn’t feel and but but then I got into this feeling of like, I was doing something wrong, because clearly, what she recommended would lead to success, it would be really good and it would be a way to reach the people I was trying to reach, but I was just like, Ooh, it doesn’t feel like me. It doesn’t feel fun. And you know, there was so much that just didn’t feel right. And so but but instead of recognize now I can see that now I’m like, oh, yeah, I just I need to do what feels good to me. At the time. It was it was like, I felt not she didn’t shame me, but I was feeling I was shaming myself for not like Am I really doing what she recommended? Yeah. So

Megan Winkler 35:05
well, in that sense part of our society that we live in right is not doing it the right way, then we’re programmed to shame ourselves.

Cindy Ingram 35:13
Yeah. And we’re so programmed to to look for answers outside of ourselves. And that’s what happens to with when I’m showing art to people. I always say, Don’t Google this. Before, don’t know, I don’t even like giving the titles on here. Because I don’t want you to just go look it up, or I don’t want you to, like we use the title even for information, because we’re so trained to go looking for what someone else says about this artwork and what and when really, all of it is in us already.

Megan Winkler 35:45
Yeah, yeah. Well, I’m an I’m a historian as well. And my, my first master’s degree is actually in, in history. And so for me, it’s like, knowing understanding the date kind of helps me kind of put the context to the work, but I agree, like, that’s the beauty of art, I think, is that it’s there for us to consume. It’s like, you know, if I have a blade of spaghetti and meatballs, like it’s going to taste different to me than in, it’ll taste differently to you. There’ll be a lot of commonalities, right, we can all look and say this is a woman in a red dress fighting against some sort of wind on a path, the barn that’s coming apart in headwind, or house coming apart and said wind, but then beyond that, it’s like, Wait, well, what? What’s there, right? Yeah, isn’t there?

Cindy Ingram 36:36
Yeah. And what? So to someone who maybe got some really epic, tragic divorce, like that’s gonna add a whole layer of meaning because she’s got the wedding ring on and you guys are or, you know, there’s, there are someone who lost their house and a tornado, like they’re, you know, everybody is going to, those are just sort of drastic examples. But everybody is going to find

Megan Winkler 37:02
their own self, you know, yeah. Well, it’s like, for me in particular, I’ve lately been really drawn to red. Because if my red lips didn’t give it away, us you know, no. Sorry. Part of the what drew me into this work was her red dress, because that is the color of the divine feminine. Oh, is it? Yeah. And it also, you know, is our root chakra. Oh, my goodness. Pluto is being

Cindy Ingram 37:39
Pluto has something to say about the earth. He really does. He’s like, wow.

Megan Winkler 37:45
But yeah, you know, and that that read of the Divine Feminine just popped out at me and whether or not the photographer the artist thought about that. Who knows, but it just makes a beautiful contrast between the red and the green. stand out to me too. Yeah,

Cindy Ingram 38:01
yeah, this artwork for art teachers are listening. We do have a lot of art teacher she’ll sing is really good for teaching composition with the contrasting colors, the contrasting lines, that I mean, it’s a really good like, movement, good elements and principles, artwork to look at

Megan Winkler 38:16
now, and I love like, Yeah, I mean, even just like, from that composition standpoint, it’s like her knee and the line of the road is a V and then there’s like an inverted V with the wind, the building’s roof and everything. It’s just it’s so good.

Cindy Ingram 38:31
Yeah, yeah, it really is. And to be able to do this in a photograph has photographs are amazing. So we’ll link to his website, so you can like all of them are good. I can’t wait. Yeah, they’re so good. Oh, cool. All right. So what else? Are you noticing in the artwork? Is there anything?

Megan Winkler 38:50
Well, so I noticed the like I said, kind of the lens flare, the kind of rainbow behind her that it almost implies, you know, if we look at it from that standpoint of if you just let go and shocked fighting the you know, the forces of the universe that are here to support you, like what, where would you go, and kind of that that image of the rainbow is is hope, and you know, kind of diversity and and all that it’s like, Oh, would you be blown so far off of your course that you wouldn’t recognize your life in five years in a good way. And I just I think that that’s so cool. And I just also love how I’m so drawn to that. That one light her left leg and that line of her calf muscle and everything and it’s Yeah, so So details.

Cindy Ingram 39:44
Really, yes. I love that this rainbow thing it makes me view the wind differently. You know, the at first the wind felt so aggressive and unwelcome and dramatic and still does like that, that pull like the just motion I just feel in my chest when I look at this ticket, it just has just keeps pulling my heart forward. But as I see that that rainbow that you’re mentioning, like it makes me it feels more benevolent. The wind does it feels more. Like if it were to continue on and keep pushing her forward like the rainbow would then would stay with her.

Megan Winkler 40:25
Yeah. It almost looks like it’s like cradling her because yeah, kind of curve behind her. It does. That’s so wild. Yeah, guess. Looks. There’s another one to kind of two quarters of the way back from the peak of the house. I’m like dragging your quarters. If you look at like the peak of the house, and Oh, yes. Yeah. Which is kind of interesting

Cindy Ingram 41:00
that it is. It’s like coming out of the roof of the house.

Megan Winkler 41:05
Yeah. Oh. That’s wild. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 41:15
This is one of those times where I’m just like, oh, that just happened in the photograph, no big deal. But then I’m like, but I also want to find meaning in it. And yeah, and that’s so fun.

Megan Winkler 41:23
And I’m sure there’s been some digital manipulation of the stuff in the background, just because I can’t imagine, you know, being able to take a photograph and that strong wind. Yeah. You know, it’s kind of like, well, a photographer can choose to leave something in. That’s true.

Cindy Ingram 41:39
That is true. And we know and what I know of his photographs is that many of them had to be edited to create the effect that he he wanted. So he Okay, so rainbow coming out of the house, the house, the house that is falling to pieces, what could that be about?

Megan Winkler 42:00
You know, it could be it could be so many different things. My first thought is kind of that heart of the house. Like, maybe it’s coming out of the kitchen? Or maybe it’s the glow of a television screen. Who knows? Yeah, but, you know, it’s like maybe, and I think that it might just be something else to kind of drag our eye because it’s interesting. It’s like I kind of feel like my eyes are being dragged across the plane of the image like up towards that upper left corner where the it’s just it’s so bright white of the sunshine that the edge of the of the image just kind of disappears. But yeah, I mean, it’s golden light, right? That maybe it’s reaching down from the heavens reaching up to the heavens, it does feel like it almost feels like as we kind of look at this more, she could lean back into that rainbow that’s on the front end of the wind and just be carried up to a new height of some sort.

Cindy Ingram 43:03
Yeah. Oh, gosh, as you’re so you’re, you’re talking about the the rainbow pointing up to the sun and all how your eyes drawn there. But now as you were talking, I started to notice it too. Like if you look at the the roof tiles coming up, if you follow the line of them. They point up to the sun. This branch that’s in the air has this curved line that points to the Sun her hair. Yeah, points to the Sun her her arm. The the belt on her dress points to the sun even her skirt. flares up. It does. Yeah, like everything that’s not pointing down the road. seems to be pointing up to that. Up to that son.

Megan Winkler 43:47
Yeah. She had a necklace on to that’s pulling up

Cindy Ingram 43:53
a bun necklace. Yeah, it’s pulled up my mind towards

Megan Winkler 43:57
like, wow,

Cindy Ingram 43:59
the universe wants her to go there. Yeah, I’m convinced now.

Megan Winkler 44:03
I think you’re right.

Cindy Ingram 44:06
And you know, surrender.

Megan Winkler 44:08
Yeah. And we fight against and yet so many of those messages. Oh, I have chills.

Cindy Ingram 44:15
That’s when you know, you reached a good spot.

Megan Winkler 44:18
Ah, there it is. Yeah. And I do like to kind of behind her the tree is this it is this blur in the wind, but it’s like you can see the blue peeking out between the branches. And it’s, it kind of has that impressionist vibe of like, oh, yeah, I understand what you’re you’re communicating here. That’s so cool. Oh, yeah. Excellent. I think it might be about surrender. Yep.

Cindy Ingram 44:52
I think so to that network. Even before he said it was like that we’re just kept kind of bubbling up and I’m so So we’ve got a this is this is where if you were in the art connection circle, I would ask the participants to journal so this is for you listeners, I haven’t done this yet on the podcast, but now I’m feeling called to do that is to after this episode, take some time and kind of free right on the topic of surrender and where in your life do you feel like you? Mate? You know, what, what are you being called to that you’re resisting? And what can you surrender to? To get you to that? Sunlight place?

Megan Winkler 45:34
Yeah. So I’m gonna do that too.

Cindy Ingram 45:39
Do you have any thoughts that would come to your head of what you think you would need to surrender to?

Megan Winkler 45:45
You now it’s it’s so interesting that you asked that. Because the past week or so, I’ve really been and it doesn’t sound like it’s surrendering to it. But it really is kind of surrendering to my own innate intuition and my own innate magic, and you would think I would already do that. And I do a point. But it’s like with anything, right? It’s like, if you’re learning a language, you get to a point where you need to learn, you know, you the next step up, right. And so I have been feeling you know, called to this next step up, and it’s just a matter of surrendering to the guidance that, that I’m getting within my own heart. And you know, the things that are around me, the universe blowing me in a direction. Yeah, so you know, in letting that letting go of the what ifs and also the the idea that it’s like, oh, I don’t have time or energy for that. It’s like, no, no, I totally do. And as I surrender, and I stopped fighting, yeah, now going inward and really stoking this creative fires. I am more energized than ever. Yeah,

Cindy Ingram 46:55
that’s I was gonna say when I when I’m at that place of excitement and intuition and where it feels right. I have boundless energy. Like, there, I have energy for days to do what I want to do. It’s when I’m resisting, it’s when I’m fighting it, that I don’t have the energy that I need for the work that I’m doing.

Megan Winkler 47:10
Absolutely. So agree. Love it.

Cindy Ingram 47:15
Oh, well, I feel like we arrived at a really solid place to to end this. Do you have any ideas or anything left unsaid? Do you think that you’re?

Megan Winkler 47:24
I don’t think so. I was just gonna go everyone to go check this out. Because I mean, you know, I feel like you could just really sit in front of it and just journal about surrender and just everything else that comes through. Awesome.

Cindy Ingram 47:36
Okay, well, thank you so much. What I want Can you tell us how to find you online, so that if anybody’s interested in learning more about your work that they know that they go to the right place?

Megan Winkler 47:49
Yeah, absolutely. So you can always find me on Instagram @TheMeghanWinkler and it’s Megan. You can also find me at MeganWinkler.com Or goodbusinesswitch.com.

Cindy Ingram 48:01
Wonderful. And do you have a membership?

Megan Winkler 48:05
I will have a coworking membership. I’m launching it very soon. Actually. It’s going up this week. So probably by the time Yeah, actually, by the time that’s gonna be next Thursday when this Yeah. So I have started the co working Kevin, it’s the good business, which is co working Kevin. And it is a coworking membership that is specifically for spiritual folks. You don’t have to be witchy to be in it. But each day has a certain energy. And so we’re really aligning with that. And we’re gonna have co working sessions each week and throughout the month, that are really focused on the energy of the day of the week. So every month, we have a Thursday session where we are doing all our finances, because Thursday is ruled by Jupiter. And Jupiter really aligns with business goals and finances. So we’re gonna, like, you know, balance our books and everything together in community. We don’t have to share the details of said books. But we’re doing it all together at the same time to create just a supportive way to stay accountable to ourselves and to our own desires and businesses. So it’s really cool.

Cindy Ingram 49:14
Awesome. Well, we will put all the links to that in the show notes. Thank you again, Megan, for joining me today. You Cindy. It has been a joy. This is so much fun. Yes. All right.

Thank you again to Meghan for that amazing conversation. And now I will tell you the rest of the story about what happened when I showed this to the art and self connection circle. So the most fascinating thing that happened in the art and self connection circle was that someone noticed that there was a track going from the woman’s foot forward as if she has been she is being dragged backwards. So you can see this just kind of trail from her foot in the dirt. So you know that the entire conversation with Megan and we to talk about is she being pulled back or she is she being pushed forward. And we ultimately liked the interpretation of her being pushed forward. But when you add the addition of that track and the dirt, it changes a lot of things, because then you see, oh, well, she was first forward, and now she is back. And it’s really interesting to me to think about how that changes everything that we we just talked about. And no part of me is like, oh, shall I even tell you the story? Because now you have you wasted your time sitting here listening to us interpret this work of art, and we are missing this key piece of information. But I don’t believe that to be true. I believe that that process of us talking about the work of art together as finding personal meaning in it, of talking about symbolism, talking about feelings, talking about humanity, and society, and all of that. Wonderful things that happen when you have a deep conversation with someone. Of course, that was not time wasted. But it really does show you what can happen when you get you and when you enter into community with someone else regarding a work of art, and that you really spend time with it, dissecting it and talking about it with someone else.

Now, you heard me mention in the interview with Meghan, that, you know, if this were in the art and self connection circle, I would ask you this question for you to journal on. And if that kind of piqued your interest a little bit, if that’s something that you feel like you would benefit from, you want to spend more quality time with works of art, you know, you obviously can do that with this podcast. But if you really want to dive deeper into art, I invite you to check out the art and self connection circle self study version that I have currently released within the last few months. And what this is, is a independent study version of the art and self connection circle. Every week, you get a lesson, which is and questions about a work of art, creative activities around a work of art, as well as self development exercises like uncovering your values, dreaming into your vision. And then you look at artworks that are related to those topics. And really work on learning more about yourself through the context of looking at works of art. And that is available at art class curator.com/self study, or you can just find the link in the show notes. And you can start working on your connection to yourself and to art starting today. I’ll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening to art and self and if you loved what you heard, please consider leaving me a rating or a review on iTunes and share this episode with one friend who you know needs to hear what we talked about today. You will find links to the artworks that we discussed over at the show notes and you can find me on Instagram and Facebook @CindyNeedsArt. Thank you so much for listening and have a wonderful week. We’ll see you next time.

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Art Connection Meditation

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How to Align your Inner and Outer Spaces to Cultivate Safety and Flow

In this episode of the Art & Self Podcast, I welcome Annette Stahl—an entrepreneur, coach, and designer. We spoke about life transitions, how our homes reflect and influence our lives, safety, energy, and how inner and outer spaces can align.

The artwork discussed on this episode is The Mysterious Garden by Margaret Macdonald Mackintosh.

Note: Domestic violence is briefly mentioned in this episode in the 34th minute.

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6:05 – What do you think these faces mean? 

11:46 – What does it mean to be a bubble? How does it work? 

16:07 – The face that looks like it’s looking out at me. 

21:51 – How has doing this work of breath and flow impacted your life? 

28:15 – Mirror story

38:10 – Childhoods

45:34 – You have to give yourself permission to go through. 

  • The Mysterious Garden by Margaret Macdonald Mackintosh
  • A Design Discovery
  • Annette Stahl on Facebook, Instagram

This transcript was auto-generated, so please excuse any typos or misspellings.

Cindy Ingram 0:02
Hello, and welcome to art and self. I’m Cindy Ingram, your host and the founder of art class curator, the curated connections library and the art and self connection circle. This is a podcast where we experience the range and depth of what it means to be human seen through our connections and conversations about work smart. These aren’t conversations are here to show you that art is here for you as a catalyst, Challenger, coach, and a comfort. Before we get started, take a moment to fill up your lungs with a deep breath, connect with your body and your mind and your spirit and get ready to discover what art has to show you.

I am so excited to welcome Annette Stahl to the podcast. Welcome Annette.

Annette Stahl 0:49
Hello, thank you.

Cindy Ingram 0:51
All right. So Annette, why don’t you introduce yourself to our listeners.

Annette Stahl 0:56
I am Annette Stahl. And I have a company called A Design Discovery. I have designed and drafted over 400 homes. I do consulting, and coaching and design and real estate. And what I have learned over the last decade and a half is that our space supports how we love. And when we align it, everything flows. And when we get out of alignment. It’s very chaotic and overwhelming. So I’m excited to be here because I love art. And I really promote local artists and making sure that we don’t use the masses, the energy we bring in the home is the energy it will have. And so I am super excited to be here.

Cindy Ingram 1:39
Awesome. So at the end, I’ll ask you a little bit more about your the services you provide in case anybody is just really intrigued by your discussion. We’ll talk about that and how to reach you at the end, and we’ll also put any links we mentioned in the show notes. But for us to get started, I picked actually I have five works of art for you to look at I had four, but like five minutes before we started talking, I was going to try to find a title for one of them. I failed. But I found another one by the same artist and I was just kind of my curiosity was piqued. So I’m going to show you these artworks on the screen. And then I would like you to choose one that really captivates you choose one that like speaks to your heart not like intellectually thinking, Oh, I think there’s some things I could say about this. But like what it like, which one gives you that sort of visceral reaction of ooh, I want to I want to look at that a little bit more.

Annette Stahl 2:31
So we’re going for feel which one feels?

Cindy Ingram 2:35
Yeah, yeah, that’s what we’re going for. Okay, so let me share my screen. We were just talking before we started, both of us have dogs that are being extra noisy today. So you might hear dogs in the background. And we’re just gonna go with it, because that’s really I did take my dog out because he was snoring really loud. But all right, so here’s our first one. This one is called comfort zone by now of course I don’t have the titles on the screen. Erik Johansson, I believe actually, I’m going to take this off so that I can actually look at the titles. Oh, I was right. I was all of a sudden thought that Eric was wrong. Okay, comfort zone by Erik Johansson. And then I don’t have a title for this one. But the artist is named swoon. She is a street artist. And then another one by the artist swoon. And then we have the opening by Ilya Chapman. And I might be saying her last name wrong. And then our last one is the mysterious garden by Margaret MacDonald McIntosh.

Annette Stahl 3:43
So I’m called to Margaret Macintoshes. The mysterious garden.

Cindy Ingram 3:48
Awesome. Last one. Okay. This one I just added in the last hour as well. I had four different ones that I was changing my mind. Cool. All right. So before we get started talking about it, tell us what what drew you into it what made you want to look at this one more.

Annette Stahl 4:04
It was the feel so it’s like this flow and then it would honestly I didn’t look too close at any of them. I just went with what felt called to so my intuition just was really curious and it has so much open space and yet so much going on at the same time. That the both and was intriguing to me. The color was also amazing. So that color definitely resonated with me, the blues and the purples and the pinks.

Cindy Ingram 4:36
Excellent. Do want to start at the description for our listeners and listeners. You can find this artwork in the show notes. But please do not pull it up while you’re driving.

Annette Stahl 4:50
The first thing to notice about this is it’s almost like a bubble. So it’s like this soft, flowing woman and you don’t know if it’s like her Hair are available, but it’s like she’s in this bubble. And then when you look behind her, it’s like is that stained glass, but there’s faces all along the top. And at first, they’re evenly spaced, and then all of a sudden, they get super close. And then they go back to evenly spaced. And it’s almost as if they have wings under them. Hmm.

Cindy Ingram 5:22
Yeah, so the color palette is mostly like a purpley blue like a cool blue. And it’s very, it’s not very saturated, it’s really sort of kind of washed out with some grays and white. And then little touches of pink and little touches of a more warm purple.

Annette Stahl 5:43
In the bottom is really grounded on the ground. Like it looks almost like concrete, because it’s kind of that color. That’s what it’s giving it it’s a luminous and kind of puffiness. And her face looks completely like almost like that sleep serene face, you know, like that, like who like that?

Cindy Ingram 6:04
Excellent. All right. So I think that’s a pretty good description in between each of the faces in the background. And they’re all pretty similar. There are some differences, which we can talk about too. But there is the spaces between the faces. To me, I’m always viewing them as columns. But there’s sort of this vertical lines interspersed in between the faces,

Annette Stahl 6:30
almost like columns, it’s almost as if she’s in like a church or synagogue or some kind of old type of structure where everything had the columns and the piers.

Cindy Ingram 6:42
Yeah. And it does feel like a very sacred space.

Annette Stahl 6:45
Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 6:48
All right. So what is calling you to discuss first?

Annette Stahl 6:53
I’m curious about the faces. So I don’t know if it’s calling me but I am curious, because there’s one face that’s in between two columns. There’s a blue bubble on her and her eyes are different. It’s like all the rest of them have closed eyes and her eyes are open.

Cindy Ingram 7:06
Yeah, and she almost has like, really dramatic eyelashes or our eye makeup.

Annette Stahl 7:14
Yeah, I couldn’t tell it was yeah, I couldn’t tell

Cindy Ingram 7:17
zoom in on that. I wonder if I can. Okay, so I’ve zoomed in the image and what are you noticing about that one space.

Annette Stahl 7:26
So it’s interesting because most of the eyes are like I called them hooded eyelids or just this you might be able to see through just barely, but you’re really in that relaxed state. And then the one that has the pink on it and is in between two faces is like awake. Yeah. Even look at the smiles. They’re almost all the same. Except kind of go away on the one beside her and I can’t tell if those are wings below them or fish.

Cindy Ingram 7:56
To me, they look like ties, and oh collared shirts.

Annette Stahl 8:03
Oh, like feathers. Maybe even

Cindy Ingram 8:05
Yeah, but now I’m seeing that. Now that you’ve mentioned it. If you look at the you look at one of them. The wings overlap her bubble. And so that makes me think that it is wings, too. Yeah, so that were birds. Look at the one on the right. Oh, yeah, maybe it is. There’s beaks and eyes. Yeah, I

Annette Stahl 8:29
see. That’s why I thought they were fish because I was like, it’s like they are alive. But your birds.

Cindy Ingram 8:36
Interesting. Okay, so what do you think these faces are? What do you think they mean? What do you think they’re they’re

Annette Stahl 8:43
well and then there’s flowers below the lips. Do you see that? So right there’s flowers and but I don’t understand the pink. So it’s like coming out of her crown chakra or the back and it’s on the one face that has the awakening.

Cindy Ingram 9:02
Yeah.

Annette Stahl 9:03
So in the title of the piece is mysterious garden which would make sense that there’s flowers and would make sense there are birds even so look even at her dress, like right below her collar there. Looks like there’s a bird coming out of it. Like go down. Oh, left, see that? i Yeah, like right here. Go Yep, and then go down below the blue one. And so I’m finding that really interesting. As far as is it when we slow down and we connect with nature. And we garden that we become awake because you know it’s like asleep and it’s all regimen of the kind of machine of building a column building a building, and then they get close together. her and it’s like her movement went in and her eyes open? Or is that is that she is asleep and then she’s awake and her dream her mysterious garden dream? I don’t know. Ah,

Cindy Ingram 10:13
okay, so a couple theories that there is a that she is asleep and this is her dream, or that she is is it? Is it a real? Not rebellion as the wrong word, but so it’s something contrasting against like the industrialized cookie cutter type of world?

Annette Stahl 10:44
Well, that’s my question is that masculine feminine is systems versus gardening like machine versus gardener. Because the, it’s there in columns as if a building was built, right. And a building has to have structure and straight, you wouldn’t necessarily want a wall that was bowing out or it right. And so it has this like structure. And then inside this structure is these birds that are coming up into this face. And then then it’s blossom in the middle that’s right below the lips. So that’s, it’s interesting to me. And the eyes are changing depending on like, where the blossoms are. So and the reason I was thinking I think I was drawn to it is because it has all the geometric shapes and structure behind her. And yet she is this fluid bubble of lightness. Against the contrast of the structure. Yeah. Oh,

Cindy Ingram 11:46
I’m gonna unzoom just hacking, we can see the full scope of it.

So what do you mean works? And how to say that one more time?

Annette Stahl 12:00
She looks like a bubble, like so? flowy?

Cindy Ingram 12:06
Yeah, it’s like, I want to be her. I know. Like, can I please just feel that sort of like comfort and lightness and

Annette Stahl 12:17
in a womb? Yeah. Like, you know, it’s like that circular womb, like she’s just flowing. And, you know, like, when you think of a baby and a woman there and all that water, and it’s just, there’s obviously structure all around them.

Cindy Ingram 12:33
Yeah, and we don’t see her, we don’t really see her physical body, we kind of see her shoulders and her chest. But then it sort of flows out to the left. And we can kind of see maybe, like two lines that kind of represent the side of her dress or something. But it really is not a very, like, natural way someone would stand so she is not doesn’t appear to be really standing on the ground. She’s more floating. Yeah. And that whole bubble is on the ground and is grounded. Yeah.

Annette Stahl 13:06
I mean, literally, there’s brown in the bottom. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 13:11
So I feel like there’s some sort of message here for me, in my life. How to find peace, or exist within myself, peacefully despite the structures around me. Or

Annette Stahl 13:34
maybe those structures, they create the safety for us to flow and be in ourselves. You know, if you think of a home, it allows us to control doesn’t matter what the weather is doing. It gives us that safe place to sit and paint and create and be ourselves. Right. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 13:55
But at the same time, so I see that in here, and I see the sacred space at all. Yeah, has that like stained glass type of look? Yeah. And to me, a safe space is not one where I’m being watched. And so all of these phases, and maybe it’s causing a little bit of uneasiness, for me thinking like if I’m imagining myself being her she looks so peaceful and she looks lost in it. She doesn’t necessarily look aware of all those faces, but to me, I’m like, oh, there’s something uncomfortable about having all of those people

Annette Stahl 14:33
well, so all of those spaces seem to be her paces. Assume they were her faces. They’re all parts of her. Oh, so there are parts of her just looking and knowing of her soul. Like it’s like we see you Yeah, I love or maybe her. We see your soulful, amazing connected. We see you.

Cindy Ingram 14:56
Yes. And they’re like, or they’re even like her her spirit. right to her guides are

Annette Stahl 15:02
like to me they feel like they’re, they’re not they don’t look judging they look noticing. True. That’s true. Like I’m just present with you, I see you, you know, you’re seeing even as a form that’s not solid a form that isn’t necessarily make sense.

Cindy Ingram 15:23
I love that. So what what do you make of the face that is different? If those are all parts of her?

Annette Stahl 15:30
Crazy because it’s pink in it and her eyes are weak. What is that says that? I don’t understand. So is that like you wake up once you start to blue like well, because it’s totally mysterious garden. Yeah. So I that’s what’s making me a little muddy because we don’t see the birds in that one because she’s covering it. It’s really close. So like, Are there awake versions available between each face and that’s the only one we came up. There’s 1234567 faces that are asleep one that’s awake. Yeah, I don’t know.

Cindy Ingram 16:10
And the more I look at that face to the more it looks like it’s looking out at me. Right? The left well, it’s the face is right eye but it’s our left. Especially you can kind of see the iris and you can see more of the eye though. The right one I don’t see as clearly but I look I feel like she’s looking at me and I feel like the expression on her mouth is a little more like it has a little more emotion to it.

Annette Stahl 16:43
Yeah, the although restless tranquil and you can see like the first face hardly has a flower. The second phase hardly as a flower then you see the flower and the third phase. The fourth phase the eyes are so look at the eyes like the eyes are a little open to the first one pretty closed in the second. That one you can see the flower but not as well as the one before. And then it almost looks like the next one. You only see the stem. And then you see her waking up. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 17:18
And even the the features are drawn more. There’s more shading. There’s more like three dimensionality to that face to like if you look at the nose, now, it looks more realistic than all the other like the one right immediately to the right of almost. Yeah, you can barely even tell and they fade out even

Annette Stahl 17:39
more than more than you go right because the next one more faded out. Oh

Cindy Ingram 17:50
and she almost looks like she’s the face that we’re talking about the one that we’re the sort of awake face in the background. It looks to me like it’s not as if maybe like a smirk.

Annette Stahl 18:05
Yeah, I would agree. It just seems interesting because she’s connected to that face versus the other faces. She’s really not touching.

Cindy Ingram 18:16
Yeah, someone close to her.

Annette Stahl 18:19
She is touching that one and that one appears seemingly not in order because that should be a blank space if you are going in the pattern that had been created before.

Cindy Ingram 18:33
So still kind of a mystery.

Annette Stahl 18:37
And here’s my question about the flowers. It looks like birds are bringing the flowers because if you look over whether you can see the firewall looks like this, like the stem is in their feet. Yeah. And they’re in that one the feathers are in front of her so the birds are in front of her and she’s behind it.

Cindy Ingram 19:04
Yeah, that part is confusing to me because it totally like messes up with my perception of space. I mean it is overall flat artwork but it in my head she’s in front and they’re behind.

Annette Stahl 19:16
But her dress is flowing behind those burdens.

Cindy Ingram 19:19
Yeah,

Annette Stahl 19:20
that’s infused maybe that’s the trance personal like maybe she’s more spirit or ghost than she is. Concrete.

Cindy Ingram 19:29
Yeah okay

Annette Stahl 19:42
I feel of the tranquility and the flow like it makes me want to flow. Yeah, you want to kind of close my eyes and feel the softness. It’s really the softness. It’s feeling I mean even the feathers I’m French Just the softness versus the rigidity of the stone or what would it be the structure behind it?

Cindy Ingram 20:08
Yeah, cuz it seemingly hard, but that that, you know, what could be columns, they’re either stained glass, they’re like marble columns, the ground is very much like, looks like cement.

Annette Stahl 20:19
Or everything was hard except for her in the birds. Yeah. And so it’s just like, even in the hardest of the worlds, you can be soft and you can write.

Cindy Ingram 20:32
Yeah. And that really connects me to a lot of when I’ve talked with you about your work and about your sort of your focus on breath and meditation and different things like that, can you? Can you talk about how this painting? Well, is this a painting? Actually not 100? Sure, this is technically called a painting. I’ll find that out before I post this. And I will let you know, I think it’s, I think it might be a print. But anyway, that’s neither here nor there. Tell us how this connects to the work that you do.

Annette Stahl 21:09
So we as a world are very much in our heads a lot, which was probably why I picked so many heads. Hmm. So one of the ways that we can come down into our body is by feeling and breathing. So really, that deep belly breath, like you’re filling a vase in that full exhale to let it all out, and let everything out and become present with right where we are. Whatever that is. So I love the faces, they just are noticing without judgment, just noticing. And I love that feel. So I always talk to people, like if they were choosing art for a space, how does this make you feel? Every space you create, you want to think about? How do you want it to feel? How do you want it to flow? How do you want it to function. And so for me, this has a lot of flow and a lot of feel for you know the flow of this of it. So

Cindy Ingram 22:16
how has really doing this work of, of breath, and flow impacted you in your life.

Annette Stahl 22:35
It’s shifted to in to follow my heart instead of do what people want. So I am a chronic people pleaser. I notice their expressions. And so I built successful. While I’m on my seventh business, I build successful businesses and sell them. But I sell them because they’re not me. They make lots of money, but they’re sucking my soul.

And so for me that breath and coming and really following my intuition coming into my body, feeling the sensations in my body of does this feel in alignment of being healthy, and being what I need in this moment, has shifted. In order for me to help people right now. It seems like all my clients right now are grieving. I lost a soulmate. And so I’ve went through figuring out how to get through that tunnel of grief. And almost all of my people are figuring out how do they create space for them. Because they’re no longer in us. They’ve either lost a child, or they’ve lost a spouse. And we forget that we co create and every moment. Yeah. And so all of a sudden when it’s just us, like what what does that feel like? What does that look like? What does that flow like? And we have to come back into our bodies and be willing to ask and that’s scary. Because we haven’t been there alone for a really long time sometimes.

Cindy Ingram 24:15
Yeah, I was talking with someone recently who was going through a divorce and she’s going through the same thing of like, oh, well, this is how I was told I should create my house by my spouse but now that we’re not together anymore, like what do I even like? You know what it was this discovery of self?

Annette Stahl 24:34
Yeah, they don’t even know and so I talked to them about what juices your energy what zaps your energy, right? Like there’s things for me when I’m in nature, I am just like I feel so alive. Being around a lot of people is a zapper for me. So when I create space, I talk about the same thing. Does this use your energy or does it zap your energy and people are sometimes surprised they have you know, maybe something from the ground And they’re like this, I hate this. I love my grandma. I don’t want to get rid of it. I don’t I hate this thing. And I was like, okay, so what can we do to honor her and allow it to leave our space? I always say if you don’t love it enough to dust it, because I hate dusting. It open space is kind of what she’s showing here. When we open space, it allows flow. If there is something in every crevice, and we’re like, we’re gonna make a change, the odds of change are gonna be a lot harder, because you’re going against the current. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 25:36
Yeah, I think this space. And so that was one of the first things that you said, when you said that this one is what drew you when it was the space of it. And and I love that because I’ve been Yeah, I’ve been in some houses that it’s just like, oh, just, this is too much. There’s furniture everywhere. And then I just feel like I can’t even breathe. So

Annette Stahl 26:03
yeah, one of them. Her daughter has been gone for years, and died at 16. So that’s a hard one. And so she’s gotten a new home now. And we’re talking about how we honor her daughter, right? And she’s had her daughter and the entry of her home and in this home, I was like, Well, what would happen if we put a mirror and then tree and it reflected your reflected her picture and things in this other room? Because she’s still a part of your life. And you want her front and center? Every second because she told you she wanted you to live and move on heart. But do you want her to be drive everything right? Like who’s driving your car? Yeah. And so she the report back from the I call it report back from the field because I checked with people I’m like, report back from the field, how has everything to move, right? It’s just, she’s like, it has shifted so much because she’s still I honor her her. And I understand I honor her and the time she is and she’s a part of my memories, and I am starting to go make friends I’m starting to get out, right? She’s not locked in this place where she couldn’t even leave her house. So I feel like that growth, right? It’s not, we don’t have to get rid of things, we just have to figure out how to open the space. We took a big photo book. So we have a whole wall collage wall. And then the rest became a photo book instead of a whole entire house, right? Like it has its place. It’s just the thing about grief that I explained to people is when somebody first dies, it’s like you have a bookcase and the only book in there is the man you divorced or the man that died or the child that died like the bookcase doesn’t have anything else, because everything stops in that moment. And then over time, where we start adding books, we still honor them or the best part of them, whatever they gave us we live that that’s how they live on as we add books of life on our books. So

Cindy Ingram 28:15
I love that and I love the mirror that that mirror story was so powerful because I can imagine her standing in front of that mirror and she’s she’s now the focus and she can see herself she can probably see her daughter in her generation her up his or her appearance. And then she sees the stuff from her daughter but she also sees who she is who she was and who she’s becoming all in that that one space

Annette Stahl 28:41
that’s really powerful. She’s like I look in her reflections always in there. It’s in the bath. She’s got my back because yeah, because she’s her religion that she believes in angels. So it’s whatever your whatever do you believe in is what I coached to so yeah. Oh, I

Cindy Ingram 28:59
love that. Okay, so bringing it back to Margaret MacDonald McIntosh has always have a mouthful saying the name I did look it up as ink and watercolor on vellum. So that is that is probably what we’re seeing with like the bubbliness of it and like the like now that I know that are color

Annette Stahl 29:21
it’s totally like watercolor somewheres Yeah, and

Cindy Ingram 29:25
there are parts it doesn’t even look like the color kind of it was just sort of beaded on top and so I’m kind of now that I know this applies I can kind of see how that would that would work but um so looking at the the painting again now that I can officially call it a painting. What else are you noticing

Annette Stahl 29:50
it’s just the flow like though it’s like her body there’s an absence where her body was Do you see that? Like? Obviously it’s not a natural stance. So it’s almost a dance. So it feels like this dance with openness, this dance with expansion. Like it’s like she’s expanded, right? Like she just let go closed her eyes and it all just expands. She’s allowing whoever I think those are parts of herself watching herself. Yeah, past selves, maybe future selves. Maybe that penguin is her current self. And she’s just allowing it.

Cindy Ingram 30:32
Yeah. And it makes me think too, you know, I have a bubble. As you know, probably a lot of listeners. I’m sure I’ve talked about my bubble before. But you know, I like to keep people at a kind of a safe, a safe distance. But she’s she this bubble that she is in. It doesn’t feel like it is trying to keep things out. If that makes it like it feels really like inviting and it feels like warmth and like you just want to like walk in walk. It’s it’s an inviting bubble. So rather than like a repelling bubble,

Annette Stahl 31:10
I don’t see it that way. Don’t

Cindy Ingram 31:11
okay,

Annette Stahl 31:12
I felt like it’s her private space. That’s her private place. Yeah, like for me to walk into it would violate her secretly. So it feels so sacred. Her dance and her. You’re right, it doesn’t feel like it’s steel. I mean, it feels like it’s a bubble. But like, it feels like you blow bubbles and you put your finger on it. It pops, it was like, tried to stick my hand and it’s soft enough to do it. But it would pop her bubble like she wouldn’t leave the security of whatever’s experiencing. She’s experiencing this. Yeah.

Cindy Ingram 31:47
It’s, it’s interesting. Because I do feel like if I were to stick my arm in there, which just because it’s weird, but like I you know, it just to me, it feels like I would

it would I imagine that it would feel like this kind of be weird, but like you’re sticking your hand into your your dryer After it’s dried clothes or but like the sheets are, like really soft sheets, but almost like they don’t exist. But it’s like, what, what it would be like if they were like light areas. So maybe like I think maybe what I’m imagining is what it would feel like to be not that I want to enter her space. But that if I’m am in her, I think it’s me being in her position that the energy of repelling isn’t necessarily present. I think she feels safe that no one will.

Annette Stahl 32:57
I would agree. I think she’s one will. And if she was a coach, we’ll pretend she’s a coach was inviting someone into her womb, it would be so warm and comforting. Yeah. Like those warm sheets. I can see that. Yeah, like she’s like getting into her presence to be able to pull people in. But she’s not going to repel anyone. She’s just going to be her light. And if she wants to welcome people, she’ll choose that or not choose that.

Cindy Ingram 33:23
Yeah, I think that’s what I was trying to get across. And I’m wondering, like, I’m thinking about my own life. And I’m like, do I ever in my life ever feel completely comfortable and safe? Like she seems to feel? And it makes me think I can’t exactly think of that. As a as a as a, maybe this is a goal for me to feel that safe. Boy, she’s

Annette Stahl 33:58
interesting, too, because that’s one of the things I’ve been really battling with personally is feeling safe. Yeah, I cannot believe how unsafe I felt and it’s unsafe because of financial pressures unsafe because I’m shifting some career things. It’s not like my true safety is being violated. Like I live in a safe home. I live in a safe place. And so I saw one of my healers, who took me on a guided meditation and she does shiatsu. And she she made me look at her in the eyes. You are safe, and I was like, I kept closing my eyes. And she’s like, I know your brain knows but your body doesn’t. Because I have been abused. I was in a very abusive marriage where I had a gun to my head like that cold metal. I was like having dreams about the cold metal on my head to my head. And then you know, I just have been really unsafe situations. And so she was like your brain knows and you’re now The healing journey where your body needs help, because our body, every cell in our body keeps us safe. So, point we had an unsafe experience our body remembers, there’s a whole science book that says it’s called, I think the body, the body knows or the body remembers. And so it’s all that we have to do through breathing. And so she’s one of the teachers that have taught me a lot about breathing and bioenergy, and bringing up so you can actually create a energy bubble. And you feel like your whole hands turn red, and like you do this deep breath. And that’s what I did. So my soulmate had cancer, AML leukemia. And so he would get really low blood pressure, and I could make an energy bubble and put him in it, and I could raise his blood pressure. And so I had so much fun, because I didn’t know if I really believed in this stuff. I was like, all certified and doing it, but I was like, gonna find my way around on the dog who seemed amused with it.

So when I had all the machines of MD Anderson in Houston, I was so amazed that all it is is creating energy between my fingers, and then putting a party in it was just all it did was give his body cells energy, right. And so every one of our cells remembers anything that happened. And so right now, it feels like she’s just releasing all of that, like not my gig, right? Like, the cells in my body are just now my youth auric field, that little energy field around us like, and I’m just, I’m just floating in and playing in it like it’s a pool. So yeah, that’s, it feels. So I do have moments. And the crazy part is the moment I feel most safe are always in nature. I don’t feel I build homes from the ground up, I built this home, I’m sitting still feel most safe in the trees.

Cindy Ingram 37:00
So how do you bring that safety from nature into the house,

Annette Stahl 37:03
that’s why you’ll see my like, a lot of my house is like, my personal house has trees all the way around it with all these windows. And so energetically, I will bring it in by grounding our routine. So I also use elements, so not natural elements. So I find it interesting that this painting has so much water to it, right. And we both so water is all about flow and emotions. So you bring up the name of unsafe I’m Yeah, I’m sure. So if you want to feel safe, you bring tons of grounding in. So that’s clay pots and black floor black sleep floors. That’s what starts grounding you in any kind of tree routine, you know, trees will root down. So those are the things you bring in. Still, most of my traumas happened in homes, not outside. So it’s like because I can’t run and I have to find a door to get out. That’s what makes less safe for me. So you’ll always see doors everywhere. And I always can see every door. Like it’s very interesting how our body remembers.

Cindy Ingram 38:09
Oh, yeah. And I think it’s interesting. And I think about my first reaction to this to the faces is that I didn’t feel safe with him until you described what you were seeing. All I saw them they were threats and and they were like they were they were judging they were they were not like this. And that it’s interesting to study your reactions to to works of art. Because that sort of initial feeling that you get. There’s there’s usually some sort of lesson in that there’s usually some sort of like, oh, where is my nervous system being triggered by this, this and like, what does that tell me about

Annette Stahl 38:56
I also wonder about our childhoods and how they were different because I grew up in a Catholic church and in a Catholic upbringing, even though I’m spiritual out and no longer Catholic that was brought up. So this thing class we’re always saints, they were always people to keep us safe and watch over us. So the first thing I thought there was very there parts of us are angels, you know, I saw we right away. Well, that would be an archetype from my childhood.

Cindy Ingram 39:21
Yeah, I grew up Catholic too. I think to you, when you first to you called it that it looks like a church. I always see this as a stage.

Annette Stahl 39:34
Oh, so like six fair.

Cindy Ingram 39:38
Yeah. And so I think that adds to its

Annette Stahl 39:44
it does see it as a stage of makes sense of judging because we’re on the stage. There’s a critic.

Cindy Ingram 39:51
There’s, there’s a lot more vulnerability to it, talking about it as a sacred space talking about it as her like sacred space and like that has an added a lot more ease for me and looking at it. I once we noticed the burrs, because I saw them as neckties and collared shirts.

Annette Stahl 40:10
They were wings. But now that you see their birds, it would make sense. It was a stage. It makes instead it’s in and out. Yeah, I can see that.

Cindy Ingram 40:20
Yeah. It’s fascinating.

Annette Stahl 40:24
It could be you know, and then that waking up makes sense, right? Like, that is awake. It’s hard to say what the play was about. Yeah, you think it’s Shakespeare? There’s like Midsummer Night’s Dream.

Cindy Ingram 40:37
Yeah. That’s fascinating. I definitely see now more why you chose this one. Because those natural elements, the ease the breath, the lightness that. And once you started talking about the different elements, I started looking for them. Because you know, it has the water element, because it was literally made from water. The air feels like it’s present in her inner being, yeah. Like, it looks like you could just that she is made of air that she actually isn’t solid. And then the earth elements of the flowers. And that sort of now I’m like those columns could be tree trunks. But I don’t see any fire. But

Annette Stahl 41:27
I was just talking today I did a coaching call and I was talking about I really struggled to bring fire into my environment. Because I am. Like, it’s like fast. So I’ll bring orange in, I’ll bring pink and I will hardly ever bring red in. So when I see like red behind you, I laugh because you’re much more earthy and much more grounded and centered. So fire would need to keep you moving. Like I don’t need to keep moving

Cindy Ingram 41:58
I need that’s all I really think about the tubes, I think about the parts of my house that I really love are the more they’re more energetic, they’re more like bright colors and patterns and, and different things. It’s probably because you know, I’m seeking that sort of that energy that I don’t maybe naturally I do naturally have some energy, like in my mind, but like physically, I’m really more, I’m very calm of a person.

Annette Stahl 42:31
Right? So my living room is my favorite place. It is blue, it is all water elements and trees. So so because that’s where I calm down and relax.

Cindy Ingram 42:43
Well, we live in this, this world where everyone seems to want the same design in their house, especially in my neighborhood, every house I go into you just you’re gonna you know exactly what you’re gonna see. In suburban Texas, we’re gonna see some wooden signs with words painted on them, we’re gonna see, you know, we’re gonna see a lot of like farmhouse elements, we’re gonna see a lot of gray and white. And I love your your perspective that it’s really about figuring out who, who you are, what energy you need, and what you want to bring in

Annette Stahl 43:21
and giving yourself permission to change. And when I was talking to Megan, and Megan really follows the moon in the pines, and she’s very dynamic. So what she needs today is not what she’s going to need tomorrow. I said it would be interesting for us to see, especially in your workspace, what what you need in a full moon time versus what you need. Right? Like, because you follow that. So she understands that. And she was like, Yeah, that could be fun. And then another coach is, is a designer also and is redoing our office, and she’s like, I don’t have any fire in my office. And I said, Well, you are all excited that your business is organic, organically cultivating itself. So you don’t want fire. Because for you fire feels like something outside being driven. You’re, something’s driving you and you are allowing everything to cultivate and come to you. And she’s like, you’re right. And she talked about when she holds a client. She has a chair she sets in when she coaches even though she doesn’t virtually, where she can hold a client. She feels like it’s the womb, and she won’t work there should only coach there. And then she has a desk where she creates and is messy. And so it’s interesting, right? That’s all in one room. But she has spaces of what they feel like and how she wants them to feel.

Cindy Ingram 44:42
Hmm. Oh, that’s fascinating.

Annette Stahl 44:45
Yeah, one of my favorite things because we have holidays coming up so people can try this at home. One of my favorite things is to sit in every chair around the table if you’re going to have a meal with a family and see how it feels different because you look at something different. Yeah for example with my My mom always makes sure she’s looking out because looking out and seeing green is calming. And then she sat where she could see the kitchen. It’s all fired. Up. So it’s like an interesting thing versus my dad. So cool. Like, I can set him to see complete chaos, because he’s not even gonna register. Got my gig. So it’s fun to kind of do those kinds of things. And then you start to see energy and how people react and interact. And it’s good.

Cindy Ingram 45:34
That’s fascinating. I’m thinking about where we sit at the family table. And we let the kids just insisted on these two particular seats. And then my husband and I were like, that upset us. Because we didn’t, we wanted to sit in there, one of our seats, and so no one’s really only only the kids are actually happy with their seats. But I, I am the one that looks out at the kitchen, instead of looking out the window. But I like I liked that. But now that I’m thinking about and like, oh, what would it be like, if I ate my dinner with a mess of the meal that I just prepared behind me?

Annette Stahl 46:10
Yeah, it’s just fun, it’s fun to change it up. It’s fine. I tell people, like if they have a score table, I’m like, let’s make it a diamond. So that nobody can sit at the same place. You know, so it’s just fun. I’m always like, just just experiment. That’s how you start feeling like, Oh, I like how this feels, or ooh, I don’t like how this feels. And you may love how it feels. And then all of a sudden, it not feel right. And that’s okay, too. You have to give yourself permission to go through. Sometimes you quit noticing. And that means you’re now just in habit. So you now your surroundings are probably going to start piling up, you’re gonna get clutter, because you have just taken your awareness away from how do I want to feel and how am I feeling and that differentiation?

Cindy Ingram 46:53
Yeah. And that’s what I love, too about this, the figure in this painting is that, you know, she is in an environment, her eyes are closed, but she’s so at peace. But it’s not like I don’t get the feeling that she is unaware of. which goes against the fact that they’re judging because she just does not at all look like they’re, they’re judging her. But you know that she is just so in tune with how she feels and how she wants to feel.

Annette Stahl 47:27
Yeah, I felt like complete alignment with her flow. That’s what I like, I love when I, when I have space, I’m in alignment with my flow, it just never last long enough.

Cindy Ingram 47:42
That’s when your that’s when your fire comes out. You’re just like, oh,

well why it makes me think too, that I think that so much of the like self development world and the world and I don’t know, maybe it’s just the self development world that’s just or maybe the spirituality world that’s like, you have to aspire to this feeling of peace and this feeling of Zen. And and in the end that we’re seeing that in this painting, but also like what you’re saying is like you can use your environment to bring you into lots of different types of feelings and to energy and to, and then that’s okay. And for somebody, it’s like completely antithesis to what this painting is, I think but the there feels like freedom and permission in that.

Annette Stahl 48:40
I felt like freedom and permission. Yes, yeah. And I felt like it sometimes as women, we have to give ourselves permission. Like we’re looking for validation and permission outside ourselves. And I just feel like she gave herself permission. Like I give myself permission to Flo. I mean, she’s coughing she’s all you know, like, Oh, no. Like she’s in her element. Okay, so

Cindy Ingram 49:08
we are kind of coming up on 50 minutes or so we’ve been talking. I don’t know what I didn’t write down when we started. But what else is there that you’re noticing that has been left unsaid? Anything?

Annette Stahl 49:25
I don’t think so. I think we did a good job covering it.

Cindy Ingram 49:29
Yeah. Yeah. And I love this. I never, you know, come into these with any sort of preparation. I mean, like I picked the artwork, but I don’t want to spend too much time with it because I I just want to see what happens. And I love how you allowed me to see things in this artwork that I hadn’t seen before. And I have actually seen this one many times because this one is in our membership site. We have a lesson plan on this in my oh grader. I don’t think I wrote this lesson but I have you know, read the lesson and you know, we’ve used it many times and I’ve looked at it many times but But I’ve never looked at it as closely as I have with you. So I really appreciate what you have brought to my understanding of, of this. So that was

Annette Stahl 50:10
I love, we get to bring our own understanding and our own perspective. And I always tell people about their spaces like this is yours.

Cindy Ingram 50:20
So how can someone work with you? If they’ve just really You’ve piqued their interest and and they want your consulting services? What should they do?

Annette Stahl 50:31
A design discovery is my website, so they can go there. And we’ll have that in the link and you just set up some discovery call, I always want us to be a fit. So it’s a free discovery call for us to figure out what is going to help you. If it’s not me, I usually know someone perfect fit for what you’re looking to do. You can follow me on social media Annette Stahl. And so Facebook is really I do Facebook and Instagram. Awesome. You can get design ideas.

Cindy Ingram 51:00
Yeah, yeah, I get a lot of them from from watching your your Facebook. So if they were to book a call, so is it? Is it more like you’re creating designs for them? Or is it more like you give them general vibes and you’ve still got conversation

Annette Stahl 51:14
on what they need. So like, right now I can do a drafting. So I drafted do blueprints, so I’m doing an old barn and helping someone do that virtually. Sometimes it is coaching. So it means here’s how my life is and here’s what’s not working, and I don’t know what to do. And so we zoom or we FaceTime your space. And sometimes we don’t want to talk about our feelings. Sometimes we’re just over it. And sometimes it’s easier to clean something than to talk about our feelings, and it does the same thing. So I yeah, I deal with lots of engineers and finance people because they don’t really want to talk about feelings, but they really want a house that looks awesome. And feels like them. And it’s a place to replenish. So I’ll work with them that way. Because it’s muck, usually my programs are going to be three months to seven months. Because if we only do a few sessions, you go, Oh, I have all these insights, but you don’t do anything. You just have a nice thought. It passes. You don’t actually do the the integration. So I feel like you always have to, I’m always there for you to get you through the integration, so that you can actually see it come to life. So that’s why when we talk about programs, they’re three to seven months, unless you’re just looking for a plan, then that’s kind of quick.

Cindy Ingram 52:33
Yeah. Awesome. And I can vouch for Netzwerk because I was in sessions she led and she was talking to us about Fung Shui, and I, you know, took the Bagua Map, and I put it over my office. And I looked at the I hadn’t had any enrollees from a program yet. I think it had been open a couple days. And I saw the corner of my office that was finances, was the chair just covered and stuff. And then so in the middle of the session, I’m still listening, but I just walked over the office chair, and I ordered the chair in the corner. I cleaned it all up. And then 30 minutes later, I got my first sale. So I was like, oh,

Annette Stahl 53:12
yeah, it’s amazing. And you can go as deep as you want, or as little as you want. And there’s no judgement. There are times we just need to skim the surface and get some things flowing. And we’ll go deep later, totally fine. Non judgement is the biggest feedback I get is what I get lots of love. Lots of laughs and zero judgment. Biggest feedback.

Cindy Ingram 53:32
So good. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. We’ll put all your links in the show notes. But yeah, thank you so much.

Annette Stahl 53:39
It was fun. I always love spending time with you. Indeed.

Cindy Ingram 53:43
All right, that was my conversation with an install about mysterious garden by Margaret MacDonald, McIntosh, and in our interview and that and mentioned Megan, when she was talking about an example of bringing the full moon vibes into your space. And just wanted to point out that the Megan that she’s talking about is Megan Winkler and Megan Winkler will be on the podcast next week. So stay tuned for the next episode to learn more about Megan’s Full Moon witchy vibes, and how she integrates that with business. So looking forward to our discussion. If you want to have an art discussion on art itself, please send me an email Cindy at our class curator.com. I am looking for new and exciting and passionate and creative and insightful people to have these amazing conversations with and if you’re listening to this, I know that’s you. So send me an email. I can’t wait to hear from you. I will see you all next week. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to art and self and if you loved what you heard, please consider leaving me a rating or a review on iTunes and share this episode with one friend who you know needs to hear are what we talked about today, you will find links to the artworks that we discussed over at the show notes. And you can find me on Instagram and Facebook at Cindy Needs Art. Thank you so much for listening and have a wonderful week. I’ll see you next time.

 

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